Benchwork - Wiring - adding elevations

Thanks Mark,  I wish it could have all been done from above! Laying track is not as easy as I hoped it would be... I now see there is a height difference with gargraves track and ross switches, the wood ties are different thicknesses. I am not letting that bother me at this stage, as this is just to get an idea of layout function, heights inclines etc. And getting an idea on how the double track bridge will "fit" at the entrance of the layout. I will be attempting to use the same lift mechanism you used from Mike's great instructions and help.  

John, I have places where I have shimmed under a few ties and then just let the rest of the track section float.  I don’t have a problem with the track sagging as an engine goes over. Eventually all that will be hidden under ballast.  If I live long enough to get that far.  😉

Hi Mark, Thanks for the sage advise. And I do feel I am starting to play "beat the clock" Now for laying some more track. At present, I am putting one mainline down right on top of plywood to get a sense of where to drop power wires and turn out wires. Also to visualize where buildings, industries, hills, scenery etc. should look. Just tacking down every 5 feet so I am not wasting too much time with this exercise.

John, I have been doing the same thing for adding a couple holding tracks that will be under the new raised town.

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, I have places where I have shimmed under a few ties and then just let the rest of the track section float.  I don’t have a problem with the track sagging as an engine goes over. Eventually all that will be hidden under ballast.  If I live long enough to get that far.  😉

Since I use Fastrack, I've never had to consider that issue.

Is that a situation where a flexible roadbed (rubber, vinyl, foam, etc.) would help to take up the smaller height gaps that might be present and eliminate sagging ?

I thank that would work, John.

Progress so far is: main line one is connected around layout, except at the double track atlas bridge. The bridge is not installed because it was not assembled or installed. I actually have an atlas single deck bridge with and expansion kit to make it into a dual track bridge. The good news is the deck when placed in position, clears the ceiling/joists/beams when it is fully raised. So now I just have to assemble the add on kit and finish the truss work. Anyone have helpful hints, please do not hesitate to chime in! Thanks in advance

Great progress, John!  I bought my bridges already built, so I don’t have anything to offer about construction.

Merry Christmas to ALL !!!

Hello All, I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas! A quick progress update on my layout. I have one mainline up and running and one spur. Of course the mainline is not a continuous loop, due to the lift bridge not installed. However the power blocks work as designed, AIU sends signal to a micro which sends a wireless signal to a remote micro that controls a 10amp relay that switches power on or off. The same setup works for throwing turnouts! I haven't tested the block detection circuitry as of yet. I had a bigger urge to see a train or two run using DCS and learning that system. Now for the bridge, I have a linear actuator as described by Mike G. and have been looking at all the info Mike sent, Susan has posted and Mark's accomplishments. It seems prudent for me to disassemble the bridge back to the basic deck so I can have access to the metal supports inside the bridge itself. Then I can fashion hinges and supports for the linear actuator. This will also allow some painting and weathering of the bridge. I have seen some awesome weathering and painting that I have never tried to even attempt. Thankfully that is way down the road so to speak. The bridge I will be using is the Atlas Pratt Truss bridge with two three rail tracks. I was hoping to use a 3"x6" plate to secure the actuator to for raising the bridge. It looks like Mike and Mark have made plexiglass or plywood support decks. Is it because the double track bridge is that flimsy or not stable enough? Any comments are always welcome. Thanks in advance.

You have made good progress, John!  You can run trains a good bit with your nice length mainline until you get the bridge in.  I see what you mean about using the metal supports in the bridge to connect to the actuator.  I don’t know if that would be sturdy enough, or not.  I just took other’s suggestions to make a frame, but I’m sure the frame wouldn’t have to be as heavy duty as mine.

Thanks Mark for the feedback on the deck. I have some 1/2" lexan that could be used for a deck support/platform. I am still hoping the 6"x6"x1/8" plate fastened to two 3/4" x 1/8" angle brackets that are then attached to the steel plates hidden inside the girders will be steady and adequate for this bridge. Mark or Mike g. what is the distance from hinge point of the bridge to where the actuator attaches to the bridge? And how far away is the base of the actuator from that hinged pivot point? I do have 5" clearance height from ceiling with bridge vertical, so at least that is not an issue at this point. Sorry for the scribble drawing, I hope it is useful. it also needs turned CCW 90 degrees.

John, both my bridges have 7-1/2” from the hinge point of the bridge to the center hole on the actuator arm where it attaches to the mounting bracket that came with the actuator.  That is good you have 5” height to spare!!

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, both my bridges have 7-1/2” from the hinge point of the bridge to the center hole on the actuator arm where it attaches to the mounting bracket that came with the actuator.  That is good you have 5” height to spare!!

Thanks for the information Mark! Your info is as always invaluable! I am working on the bridge hinge components. Using the drawing's from Susan Deats post. I have 3D printed parts using PLA filament and I am hoping ( not a very technical term) that it will support the bridge in full vertical mode. If not then I will get out the steel and aluminum stock and fabricate as per drawings. I have included pics of the 3d printed hinges, and I have not had the courage to drill through the bridge and fasten then to it. Since the gap to span is less than 40 inches, it will sit on the layout with a tad of elevation which will accomodate the base hinge and allow clearance to go vertical.

Not sure how it will look as the plastic hinge is much thicker than the original steel design. Anyone have thoughts, especially, reason(s)  why this won't work?

I am hoping Mark,  Mike g., Susan and anyone else who has done a hinged lift bridge.

I hope it was ok to post Susan's Drawing... If not please let me know.

Thanks in Advance

John

John, the 3D printed parts look great!   The bridge itself isn’t that heavy, so I am ‘hoping’ they hold it up as well.  Since you have the skills to make parts like Susan did, you have that backup.  Susan’s plans and finished job looked great.  I only did something like that in high school metal shop.  Yours will look a lot less clunky than mine!

Thanks Mark for the vote of confidence. After getting your input I went ahead with the himge section of the bridge. It looks and feels like it will hold even more weight than the bridge. Most of the weight will either be on each end of the bridge when in down position, or the linear actuator and it's connections will bear the majority of weight. Here are a couple of pics of that endeavor.

That really looks great, John!!!  👍🏻👍🏻

Just a quick update... I made a couple of brick piers for the hinges to sit on and so the bridge could be mounted to the plywood base. I did this as a temp measure to set up the linear actuator and find out what supports I need for that and where they mount. Mark thanks for the 7.5" from hinge point, that appears to work. I'll start with that as a guide and make any needed adjustments from there. Here are a couple of pics with pier and bridge mounted. This aslo allowed ne to confirm postion for tracks and overhead ceiling clearance.

Laying more track and some buildings scattered about to get perspective and a general feel for how the layout will shape up. Here are some pics.

John, the bridge hinges and brick piers look great!  I’m glad you got some of the track in place as well.

Thanks Mark, I appreciate the encouragement.  Now for my next quandary, The track that I put down is definitely temporary, since they are not on a road bed and 30% of the track needs to be elevated so the other main line can pass under it. The quandry comes in with do I cut (cookie cutter style) 1/2" ply for elevated sections with road bed, without knowing that will be the final set up????? Or do I cut other lumber for temporary support? I would not think I need roadbed for the temporary setup?

Anyone have advice on this matter???? More or less, PLEASE Help!!!

Thanks in Advance

John

John, pick up the Westcott book on  layout building - a great reference. I am in a current build process using that technique. It is supposed to be one of the easier ways to modify layouts - especially for raising track.  Having used plywood previously, I can report grade changes and repairs require tearouts - hence the reason I am moving in this direction. I want this to be semi portable as well.  Jeff

@ScoutingDad posted:

John, pick up the Westcott book on  layout building - a great reference. I am in a current build process using that technique. It is supposed to be one of the easier ways to modify layouts - especially for raising track.  Having used plywood previously, I can report grade changes and repairs require tearouts - hence the reason I am moving in this direction. I want this to be semi portable as well.  Jeff

It funny Jeff you said to get a Linn Westcott, so I went to find the one I had and forgot I also have his book on how to wire your Model Railroad from1953!

@ScoutingDad posted:

John, pick up the Westcott book on  layout building - a great reference. I am in a current build process using that technique. It is supposed to be one of the easier ways to modify layouts - especially for raising track.  Having used plywood previously, I can report grade changes and repairs require tearouts - hence the reason I am moving in this direction. I want this to be semi portable as well.  Jeff

I have his book on benchwork, cannot find one on layout building.  I see one on Amazon that is 101 layouts?

@Aegis21  The book is "How to build Model Railroad Benchwork". If you can't find it on the ether give Hobby Recycling a call (616) 257-7155. He had a couple for around $5.00 each a couple of weeks ago.  I assume he will mail one to you.

@mike g.  LOL after I bought the Benchwork book, I decided to look at a book I picked up in the 70s on track layouts - sure enough another Westcott masterpiece - 101Track Plans.

@ScoutingDad posted:

@Aegis21  The book is "How to build Model Railroad Benchwork". If you can't find it on the ether give Hobby Recycling a call (616) 257-7155. He had a couple for around $5.00 each a couple of weeks ago.  I assume he will mail one to you.

@mike g.  LOL after I bought the Benchwork book, I decided to look at a book I picked up in the 70s on track layouts - sure enough another Westcott masterpiece - 101Track Plans.

LOL Jeff, I had to come in from the train room just to check and sure enough I also have the Westcott 101Track Plans! LOL

@Aegis21 posted:

Thanks Mark, I appreciate the encouragement.  Now for my next quandary, The track that I put down is definitely temporary, since they are not on a road bed and 30% of the track needs to be elevated so the other main line can pass under it. The quandry comes in with do I cut (cookie cutter style) 1/2" ply for elevated sections with road bed, without knowing that will be the final set up????? Or do I cut other lumber for temporary support? I would not think I need roadbed for the temporary setup?

Anyone have advice on this matter???? More or less, PLEASE Help!!!

Thanks in Advance

John

Assuming that your purpose in building a temporary set-up for the elevated track is simply to see how it fits into your overall layout and what modifications might be needed for the final set-up (as opposed to conducting actual train operations on the temporary elevated section), I would probably go with "cutting other lumber" - probably just graduated vertical sections of 2 X 4 lumber from 1/2" to 6" tall, placed at each track joint.

That way you can see how the elevated section looks w/o having to spend a great deal of money or time in cutting plywood sections to size.

Just my $0.02. 

I started my layout in 1983 and it has been growing and evolving since - my original 4 x 8 is still part of it!!!

Go here for the full story: About | WarrenVille RailRoad

John, my take is that trestle sets, both elevated and graduated, don’t require roadbed, so I don’t see why you can’t just support the joints for testing just like those would.

John, I'm currently in the process of putting in my grades and over / under track. I have both Wescott books & 1 by Jeff Wilson - 'Basic model railroad benchwork'. Construction is L-girder w cookie cutter subroadbed (1/2" ply) (6-ply)). Roadbed will be 1/2" homasote.   I agree, use cheap plywood for the elevated sections till u firm up the design.  If you're not operating on it, supports every 24" should suffice.  Here's a couple pics of my grades using risers and cleats.  Note: when u get to making your risers w cleats attached, the cleat should extend above the riser by an 1/8".  You'll have to account for that when setting your heights.  Only the cleat supports the plywood subroadbed. That's why it says to secure the roadbed by drilling thru the cleat up into the plywood. If the cleat and plywood r at the same height, and you secure into both, you're roadbed will be wavy - ie flat spot, rise, flat spot, etc.  You get it.   There is a reference to this 1/8" gap in one of the books but it is very obscure.   

John, and don't forget the splice plates.  rule of thumb is the length of the splice plate is 2x the width of the roadbed. I both glue screw  my splice plates.

Tom

whoops forgot to attach the pics

Tom, beautiful work on the benchwork. I had purchased Wescott’s book but I had already started out with open grid benchwork. I did use the risers and cleats for the grades to do an over and under. My curve on a grade looked fine to my eye till I ran a train. Had a flat spot or dip that was noticeable. Easy to correct just by re drilling the riser and bringing it up a bit.

I want to say I built my benchwork following Frank Ellison’s book. I must have read it 20 times. One thing I remember was the mentioning of a star drill and driving screws by hand. Probably slotted ones back then.  Luckily when I started the battery powered drills were just getting popular along with self driving screws.

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, the bridge hinges and brick piers look great!  I’m glad you got some of the track in place as well.

Thanks Mark, you Mike g. and Susan were my guiding lights and I could not have done it without you all being the pioneers!

@ScoutingDad posted:

@Aegis21  The book is "How to build Model Railroad Benchwork". If you can't find it on the ether give Hobby Recycling a call (616) 257-7155. He had a couple for around $5.00 each a couple of weeks ago.  I assume he will mail one to you.

@mike g.  LOL after I bought the Benchwork book, I decided to look at a book I picked up in the 70s on track layouts - sure enough another Westcott masterpiece - 101Track Plans.

Thanks Jeff, I used that to construct the L-girder benchwork and then got sidetracked with the layout and bridge. I will hunt in my basement for it... LOL Thanks for getting me off the spur I wandered onto and back on track.

@Richie C. posted:

Assuming that your purpose in building a temporary set-up for the elevated track is simply to see how it fits into your overall layout and what modifications might be needed for the final set-up (as opposed to conducting actual train operations on the temporary elevated section), I would probably go with "cutting other lumber" - probably just graduated vertical sections of 2 X 4 lumber from 1/2" to 6" tall, placed at each track joint.

That way you can see how the elevated section looks w/o having to spend a great deal of money or time in cutting plywood sections to size.

Just my $0.02.

Thanks, for some reason I had it in my head that a plywood base needed to be under the elevated sections instead of just putting risers directly under the track joints like the old lionel trestles worked. Again Thanks!

@Lionelski posted:

I started my layout in 1983 and it has been growing and evolving since - my original 4 x 8 is still part of it!!!

Go here for the full story: About | WarrenVille RailRoad

Thansk for the link, I will definitely check it out!

@DoubleDAZ posted:

John, my take is that trestle sets, both elevated and graduated, don’t require roadbed, so I don’t see why you can’t just support the joints for testing just like those would.

Yes Dave! You and Richie have the same sage advice that I will take for sure!

THANKS Dave and Richie!

@TomSuperO posted:

John, I'm currently in the process of putting in my grades and over / under track. I have both Wescott books & 1 by Jeff Wilson - 'Basic model railroad benchwork'. Construction is L-girder w cookie cutter subroadbed (1/2" ply) (6-ply)). Roadbed will be 1/2" homasote.   I agree, use cheap plywood for the elevated sections till u firm up the design.  If you're not operating on it, supports every 24" should suffice.  Here's a couple pics of my grades using risers and cleats.  Note: when u get to making your risers w cleats attached, the cleat should extend above the riser by an 1/8".  You'll have to account for that when setting your heights.  Only the cleat supports the plywood subroadbed. That's why it says to secure the roadbed by drilling thru the cleat up into the plywood. If the cleat and plywood r at the same height, and you secure into both, you're roadbed will be wavy - ie flat spot, rise, flat spot, etc.  You get it.   There is a reference to this 1/8" gap in one of the books but it is very obscure.   

Thanks for the invaluable tip on the 1/8" added cleat height for keeping things from being wavy! Great pics and progress on your layout. Where did you get the homosote roadbed? Did you make it or purchase it? Again Thanks !

@TomSuperO posted:

John, and don't forget the splice plates.  rule of thumb is the length of the splice plate is 2x the width of the roadbed. I both glue screw  my splice plates.

Tom

Hi Tom,

I have to admit my ignorance, what are splice plates? Do they attach elevated plywood pieces together?  At least I cannot forget what I don't know.