Benchwork - Wiring - adding elevations

@RubinG posted:

I share your desire to incorporate personal memories into your layout. I’m wrestling with the same issues for my layout. I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, but my only real train experienced were at Grand Central Station and Penn Station. ,where I had a lot of close up experience with GG-1s, New Haven  FLs, and New York Central electrics and the like.  But I’ve spent my adult life in the Cleveland area, where NYC ‘s Collinwood Yard and former Pennsylvania tracks, not to mention Terminal Tower and the mothballed B& O station were a part of my daily work life. How to incorporate these behemoths into a fun to run hi-rail layout is tough indeed. So I just let my favorite railroads predominate on the rails and will try too create urban scenery to evoke what I’ve seen and where I’ve lived. And all the while incorporating some Lionel accessories to please and amuse my grandchildren.

Sounds like a good plan, I grew up taking the elevated subways though out the 5 boroughs. Took about an hour to get to my grammer school when we moved from brooklyn to queens. Lots of time riding the subways. Also my dad worked in sunnyside yards in queens, and I would tag along as a little tyke. Summers I stayed at my aunt and uncles in eastern pa. Remembering the column banks of shale from the mines my uncle worked inside. Huge mountainous banks of black sooty mess, what a great playgound. LOL

@Mark Boyce posted:

Rubin, you have an excellent point about the wonderful behemoth big city stations of old.  The Downtown Pittsburgh B&O station was gone by my time.  Both Mum and Dad rode the B&O into that station from out in the country numerous times.  I was exposed to the Western Maryland in West Virginia just into Chessie System days and grew up next to the B&O tracks, so I just run those trains and think of the bigger terminuses in my mind.

Yeah, nothing can replace those memories for sure.

@Aegis21 posted:

Sounds like a good plan, I grew up taking the elevated subways though out the 5 boroughs. Took about an hour to get to my grammer school when we moved from brooklyn to queens. Lots of time riding the subways. Also my dad worked in sunnyside yards in queens, and I would tag along as a little tyke. Summers I stayed at my aunt and uncles in eastern pa. Remembering the column banks of shale from the mines my uncle worked inside. Huge mountainous banks of black sooty mess, what a great playgound. LOL

I too grew up in Brooklyn and rode the  subways when I went “ into the city”, sometimes to visit Madison Hardware, the Lionel showroom or Model Railroad Equipment Corp. I also took the elevated lines to go to Coney Island or the World Fair. But my exposure to “ real railroads” was very limited until I came to Cleveland to go to law school.

You guys are so lucky to have road train growing up! All I have done is gone on one of those silly Dinner Trains my wife wanted to do one night when we first started dating!

@mike g. posted:

You guys are so lucky to have road train growing up! All I have done is gone on one of those silly Dinner Trains my wife wanted to do one night when we first started dating!

Those Dinner trains are a must to get approval from the wife for anything.!

Thanks to everyone's help and support, the lift bridge redesign works perfectly! I'll take a video in the morning, as a bathroom remodel is calling me. Again thanks all!

@Aegis21 posted:

Thanks to everyone's help and support, the lift bridge redesign works perfectly! I'll take a video in the morning, as a bathroom remodel is calling me. Again thanks all!

John that is great news! I bet it is slicker than mine! I Can't wait to see it in action!

Hi Mike, First it is because of you that I would have even attempted to do a motorized bridge. And your documentation and instruction was great. Had I only followed it to a tee I would not has wasted so much time and materials. Thanks for all your help!

That works pretty slick. The video shows a good view of the hand painted backdrop that came out well. I can see Chris Lyons stamp on it.

Wow John that sure is slick! It's a lot better then mine and so much cleaner! Great job and just wonderful!

John, that is much more neatly done than mine.  The pins and base where they seat are very nice.  I too like the backdrop!!!

@Dave_C posted:

That works pretty slick. The video shows a good view of the hand painted backdrop that came out well. I can see Chris Lyons stamp on it.

Definitely ALL Chris Lyons, if it weren't for his excellant tutorials I would have blue sky, I am absolutely NOT an artist. Chris is correct, anyone can do this background.

@mike g. posted:

Wow John that sure is slick! It's a lot better then mine and so much cleaner! Great job and just wonderful!

Not sure about the better part, I did have MANY failures before this finished successfully. I need to pay more attention to instructions (like keeping the hinge point above the tracks! Thanks for your tremendous help and support.

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, that is much more neatly done than mine.  The pins and base where they seat are very nice.  I too like the backdrop!!!

Thanks a ton Mark for your kind words. You have done such beautiful work, I would be extremely happy to do half the craftsmanship that you have shown on your railroad. Now I hope I can get trains across the bridge. LOL

Ok so now to work on the trestle section and bridge approaches. I have been getting the trestle section built and painted with a 2.9% rise. I hope the supports are stable enough and can handle the lateral forces that it will be subjected too with trains on them being 7 inches high at their peak. I plan on having foam under the trestle as a catch bed in case of failure during test runs.

John are you also 3D printing the tressupports? Also are you putting your programs on the 3d forum page?

@mike g. posted:

John are you also 3D printing the tressupports? Also are you putting your programs on the 3d forum page?

Hi Mike,

To help with recovering from kneeling on two artificial knees laying bathroom tile, I am working on trestle pieces. Not really sure how to design these pieces a totally parametric design so anyone can change the height to their needs. If I am successful at doing it that way, of course I will put them on the 3D site. At this moment working on a 072 curved unit with side cat walks. Here is a pic to give general idea. btw this is not at all parametric at this moment.

John, that is looking great!!  Yes, take care of your new knees!

Morning John, Mark is correct that looks great I bet it is going to work wonderfully for you! I hope you will post more pictures as you go along!

@mike g. posted:

Morning John, Mark is correct that looks great I bet it is going to work wonderfully for you! I hope you will post more pictures as you go along!

Thanks Mark and Mike for the kind words. It seems whenever I think it is close to finished either a flaw rears its ugly head or I want to add another couple of details. I have much more trouble with the former! lol

@Aegis21 posted:

Thanks Mark and Mike for the kind words. It seems whenever I think it is close to finished either a flaw rears its ugly head or I want to add another couple of details. I have much more trouble with the former! lol

LOL John, don't worry it comes with the hobby!

ok I proved to myself again the lack of my layout planning/building experience  I was able to put up another stumbling block for myself. Major error in track heights and keeping grades to less than 3% while having providing some room for buildings. It started with setting track height's for each side of the lift bridge. On scarm I wound up setting them at 4" mainly to not have to deal with bridge lifting clearances. All seemed to be ok, until I started printing the trestles for the incline. Not enough length to accommodate a 3% grade. In this instance I was contemplating a ECO for the bridge lift design and reprinting the parts. I did decide to leave the bridge alone and lengthen the grade to accommodate the 3% grade. So added a 37" section which helped with it being put between two 072 curves, making it appear a smoother transition. It breaks up the main street town, although I think it adds more town detail/features/possibilities. So now a little adjustment to trestle heights and I will be back to printing trestle pieces. Here is a pic of the new section with some trestle pieces placed for fit.  The foreground track on white trestle is the revised section. Behind that is the other mainline which is starting to incline to ultimately go over mainline2 tracks. Behind that is a spur on a trestle that will be used for delivering coal to a distribution center. From what I have found reading many posts, I need minimum 5.75" clearance when one track goes over another. PLEASE if this is incorrect let me know and also is there a height that is generally agreed upon or most commonly used? Last pic shows the tracks that will be over and under each other. This is where I would  like to confirm heights. Thanks all for looking and helping!

WOW! Your trestles are beautiful. I’d love to buy some! As to your height issue, I usually use 6” from railhead to the lowest point on the overhead track or trestle, whichever is lower.  But you should be fine with your 5.75”. My concern is with your grade and sharp transition, especially if you’re running long wheelbase scale locos and you aren’t using transitions like 1% for the first two feet and so on. You’re likely to have a problem with steam engine pilots shorting against these sharp vertical curves as well.
otherwise, your  track and backdrops look great. I wish I had made half your progress on my layout.

Rubin

John, your bridges look great!!  I agree with Rubin that 5-3/4” would be fine!!  All of us have miscalculations and things we don’t take into consideration initially.

@RubinG posted:

WOW! Your trestles are beautiful. I’d love to buy some! As to your height issue, I usually use 6” from railhead to the lowest point on the overhead track or trestle, whichever is lower.  But you should be fine with your 5.75”. My concern is with your grade and sharp transition, especially if you’re running long wheelbase scale locos and you aren’t using transitions like 1% for the first two feet and so on. You’re likely to have a problem with steam engine pilots shorting against these sharp vertical curves as well.
otherwise, your  track and backdrops look great. I wish I had made half your progress on my layout.

Rubin

Hi Rubin, Thanks for the compliment, the trestles seem to have taken on a life of their own, so to speak. I find something to add or change or alter. They are the never ending trestle story. Really appreciate the input on clearances and the GREAT advice on grade transition! I remember reading some posts with Loco's "bottoming out at the grade transition. I had totally forgot that lesson and will now incorporate that knowledge into my layout.  If you are in need of some trestles, it will be awhile before I have them where I would like them to be in a total design concept. I have mastered the curved sections, adding rivets to body and still wrestling with walkway and connecting things together.  PM me and let me know what your needs are and we can go from there. Again THANKS a ton for the advise!

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, your bridges look great!!  I agree with Rubin that 5-3/4” would be fine!!  All of us have miscalculations and things we don’t take into consideration initially.

Hi Mark, Thanks on the bridges, and concurring with Rubin on height clearance. Yes we are all human and miscalculate things, however that is becoming my normal! LOL For me it is me being in a rush to do everything. I need to slow down and take a third and forth look at things. I know the faster I go the behinder I get!

John, I certainly get impatient as well.  I guess I have realized I have more ideas of projects than I will have the good health to do them!  I need to slow down.  Other things I would never realize until I get there no matter how carefully I planned.

I also agree with Rubin about the vertical transition of the grades.  Since I was building inclined to the height you are and have less space, I had to work on the bottoms and tops of the two grades.  At the top the pilot wheels of some steam engines left the track.  I had to shave down the sharp transition at the top.

I laser cut and 3D print. No matter how well I think my designs and plans are, it still takes a few tries to get it right. And then I still have second thoughts...

As to bridge or elevated structures, I try not to use girders but instead to use open trusses because girders block views and trusses are open. I like to see the trains moving beyond the truss-shapes.

Here is a 5-track truss bascule.

@Mark Boyce posted:

John, I certainly get impatient as well.  I guess I have realized I have more ideas of projects than I will have the good health to do them!  I need to slow down.  Other things I would never realize until I get there no matter how carefully I planned.

I also agree with Rubin about the vertical transition of the grades.  Since I was building inclined to the height you are and have less space, I had to work on the bottoms and tops of the two grades.  At the top the pilot wheels of some steam engines left the track.  I had to shave down the sharp transition at the top.

Hi Mark,

Hope all is well with you and your family. Seems once I hit 65 there is a finite amount of time left and an infinite amount of hopes and desires to accomplish. Good health down this last stretch of the journey is cherished for sure! Thanks for your supporting words, they mean a lot. I did go back over the posts where you had to adjust for transition grades. Great job, it seems to work beautifully.

John, did you notice I took up the track, shaved some off or filled in, then put the track back down only to find I didn’t do enough?  A couple of them were so bad, I had to do it 3 or 4 times.  Lesson learned!  With the rapidly aging body, if I build another layout I won’t put in any grades at all!  😃 🚂

Im glad to give you some moral support!  I just turned 68 and can attest to the fact that time left certainly comes to mind.

A new member at our church invited me to see his post-war layout last Saturday.  He is probably in her mid-70s and has early stages of Parkinson’s.  He had his wife operate the accessories for me to see.  😢

@AlanRail posted:

I laser cut and 3D print. No matter how well I think my designs and plans are, it still takes a few tries to get it right. And then I still have second thoughts...

As to bridge or elevated structures, I try not to use girders but instead to use open trusses because girders block views and trusses are open. I like to see the trains moving beyond the truss-shapes.

Here is a 5-track truss bascule.

Glad to hear I'm not alone in designing twice and re-printing many. LOL The software is unbelievably powerful and can do anything you want it to do, however that is where I have issues, most times I don't know what I want! At any rate, your bridge is spectacular, and there is an inherent beauty in your design philosophy of using open trusses vs girders. Your work is just spectacular for sure!

Hi John, I am sorry I have been away from the computer alot, but I have been trying to get a train room again! LOL

I have to say your bridges and trestles look great! l hope you get the transitions figured out in a short period of time. I am just like Mark and have had to do mine on the old layout several time to the point I think I got to where I said to myself oh that is good enough for now and really never got back to fix it correctly.

This next layout I really plan on going somewhat slow as it has more going on in it!

I will keep watching your build as I can learn so much from you and all the comments you get! Thank you for sharing your build with the rest of us!

@mike g. posted:

Hi John, I am sorry I have been away from the computer alot, but I have been trying to get a train room again! LOL

I have to say your bridges and trestles look great! l hope you get the transitions figured out in a short period of time. I am just like Mark and have had to do mine on the old layout several time to the point I think I got to where I said to myself oh that is good enough for now and really never got back to fix it correctly.

This next layout I really plan on going somewhat slow as it has more going on in it!

I will keep watching your build as I can learn so much from you and all the comments you get! Thank you for sharing your build with the rest of us!

Thanks as always Mike, You need to get back to making a train room again! Your good enough is the level I hope I can get to. pun intended. I'm sure you will have another spectacular layout! Good Luck! on planning and I can't wait to see all the things you will have "going on"

Thanks John, I did make some progress the last couple of days, I was able to get the room 90% insulated and Wednesday I will get the ceiling sheet rocked. I am doing it Wednesday cause I get a free days rental on Thanksgiving day! LOL Which leaves me a little wiggle time to get the ceiling done!