@GG1 4877 posted:This arrived today. Found it for a very reasonable price, but I do need to track down or scratch build a tender for it. I think it is a Max Gray, but need to do my homework now that it is here.
Sharp looking loco, are you going to keep it weathered?
@GG1 4877 posted:I'm not sure how I missed this earlier, but Athearn inherited this tooling from Globe Streamliners and it was a staple of the Yellow Box and Blue Box era for Athearn. Lionel contracted with Athearn to make these under the Lionel name for a short period of time, but they were in the Athearn catalog for a good 30 plus years.
My brother down in Ga. has my dads set when bought back in the early 60s, I replaced what I found on ebay one car with the metal trucks came with the Lionel orange box. The cars my brother has are numbered 0708 baggage, 0709 Vista Dome 0710 Observation car and 0711 Pullman. The Baggage car 4909 and the 4905 Vista Dome don't show up in the couple catalogs I have, they have plastic trucks, do you know the maker, I do have the Rectifier that I replaced some time ago made from Lionel. I thought I read somewhere that Rivarossi made some passenger cars in Pennsy? Have to recheck the cars for markings. Thanks for the update GG1
@Sitka posted:My brother down in Ga. has my dads set when bought back in the early 60s, I replaced what I found on ebay one car with the metal trucks came with the Lionel orange box. The cars my brother has are numbered 0708 baggage, 0709 Vista Dome 0710 Observation car and 0711 Pullman. The Baggage car 4909 and the 4905 Vista Dome don't show up in the couple catalogs I have, they have plastic trucks, do you know the maker, I do have the Rectifier that I replaced some time ago made from Lionel. I thought I read somewhere that Rivarossi made some passenger cars in Pennsy? Have to recheck the cars for markings. Thanks for the update GG1
Lionel never had much of their own HO tooling. They always contracted out to another manufacturer for the majority of HO. Athearn was the manufacturer from the late 1950's into the mid 1960's. Rivarossi only did trains for Lionel in 1956. Those cars you have though are definitely Athearn tooling. The Athearn cars came with metal trucks originally and later were changed to plastic. I still have several of these in my HO collection. My first passenger cars in the late 1970's were Athearn and they match these cars exactly. As I recall, the rectifier was one of the few Lionel tooled shells, but it ran on an Athearn GP9 chassis. Lionel purchased the FA tooling from John English in the 1960's but did the FAs in plastic as opposed to cast metal like the English ones. Later they contracted with Bachmann in the 1970's.
Athearn purchased their streamlined passenger car tooling from Globe along with the F7 in the early 1950s and made them into much easier to build kits than the original Globe ones. My grandfather had Globe passenger cars he purchased after he switched to HO in 1947.
@Sitka posted:Sharp looking loco, are you going to keep it weathered?
That was what actually attracted me to this locomotive. The weathering is very PRR like if not a bit clean for a late era H9 Consolidation. However, finding a tender has been harder than I had hoped. Most tenders out there have locomotives attached that I don't need 
@GG1 4877 posted:That was what actually attracted me to this locomotive. The weathering is very PRR like if not a bit clean for a late era H9 Consolidation. However, finding a tender has been harder than I had hoped. Most tenders out there have locomotives attached that I don't need
Patience, my son...one will come up eventually. 
I once picked up a Williams E6 for low $$, mainly because there was no tender; it took a while, but I finally found a suitable (Lionel) example...
Mark in Oregon
@GG1 4877 posted:That was what actually attracted me to this locomotive. The weathering is very PRR like if not a bit clean for a late era H9 Consolidation. However, finding a tender has been harder than I had hoped. Most tenders out there have locomotives attached that I don't need
Jonathan,
I think your new engine is an H10. The Cab Number, 474, was an H9s but your model doesn't have the H9 snifters where the pipes met the cylinders (those round ribbed valves) so it looks like an H10 which did not have them. That said, the H8 and H9 engines received a lot of modifications during their careers, and #474 did last until 1956 so it could have received some of the H10 mods. Your comment on "late era H9" makes me think you have some additional info on this engine.
I do like that your "new" engine has the footboards instead of the slotted pilots seen on other manufacturer's H9/H10 engines.
@CAPPilot posted:Jonathan,
I think your new engine is an H-10. The Cab Number, 474, was an H9s but your model doesn't have the H9 snifters where the pipes met the cylinders (those round ribbed valves) so it looks like an H10 which did not have them. That said, the H8 and H9 engines received a lot of modifications during their careers, and #474 did last until 1956 so it could have received some of the H10 mods. Your comment on "late era H9" makes me think you have some additional info on this engine.
I do like that your "new" engine has the footboards instead of the slotted pilots seen on other manufacturer's H9/H10 engines.
Ron,
The only information I have is from a web search on H9 and H10 Consolidations and I noted that later photos show a lot of modifications as you mention. I will probably have more time to do some research this weekend. Like everything, this will be an educational opportunity. My PRR freight roster consisted of a J1 and a M1a prior to this purchase and neither of those two locomotives operated on the NY&LB I still plan on building one day. The workaday H series seems so much more appropriate, and I just stumbled across this on a buy-it-now doing another search. A happy accident.
I've seen all sorts of tenders behind these too, but I am most interested in one with the taller coal bunker sides much like what was found behind the G5s. However, if I find a loose CLW, Saginaw, or MG PRR tender, I'm not going to be too picky.
@GG1 4877 posted:Ron,
"...I will probably have more time to do some research this weekend.
Like everything, this will be an educational opportunity..."
I love that!
Mark in Oregon
Jonathan - the model is of an H10 (no snifter valves on the steam deliver pipes characteristic of an H9). If it has a cast brass boiler it is most likely a nicely built Central Locomotive Works (CLW) kit. Kits of this prototype were first offered by Saginaw prior to WWII. Central Locomotive Works (CLW) purchased the tooling from Saginaw sometime after WWII and offered kits into the 1970's. Early kits had cast driver centers, later kits lost wax brass ones, and still later industrial plastic centers. Gear boxes and lost castings improved over the years. The kits were offered in 3 separately priced sections - boiler, chassis, and tender). CLW offered kits for both PRR low side and raised bunker Lines West protypes. Early tender kits had cast metal sides - later kits featured photo etched brass bodies. CLW H10's are frequently seen at O scale 2 rail shows and in on-line listings. If you're looking for a CLW tender I recommend posting a want-to-buy listing on the Groups.IO OSCALEYARDSALE.
I recently got this one from Carey Williams, it was one of a couple that a fellow out west had scratch built long ago. Carey kept the E6 style Atlantic but this one with it's driver issues was allowed to move on. It was built with 700E drivers and evidently the rear two disintegrated and a failed attempt to replace them was made by another owner. I've straightened the cab out and found a couple more 700E wheels, I just need to got on the lathe and make a new axle and set of bushings for them. It is sort of like a K29 which was one of the Alco experimental locos that the PRR played with early on that led to the K2,3 and finally the K4. BTW this one is huge, very tall, probably 17/64ths in general. Departures from the K29 are dome location, trailing truck and the headlight... oh and the valve gear lol. Tender is who know's what. but I 'll probably pretend it is the K29 and repaint and letter it for that.
@GG1 4877 posted:Ron,
The only information I have is from a web search on H9 and H10 Consolidations and I noted that later photos show a lot of modifications as you mention. I will probably have more time to do some research this weekend. Like everything, this will be an educational opportunity.
If you are interested, this is some data I compiled years ago. I think it is pretty accurate. My goal was to see how many H6/8/9/10s were still in service in 1949 but I could only find data for 1947 and 1951. I built the spreadsheet while looking for that data. I forgot what the column Remain was supposed to show.
Here is some data on the tenders as built, but that probably changed over the years.
@Keystoned Ed posted:Jonathan - the model is of an H10 (no snifter valves on the steam deliver pipes characteristic of an H9). If it has a cast brass boiler it is most likely a nicely built Central Locomotive Works (CLW) kit. Kits of this prototype were first offered by Saginaw prior to WWII. Central Locomotive Works (CLW) purchased the tooling from Saginaw sometime after WWII and offered kits into the 1970's. Early kits had cast driver centers, later kits lost wax brass ones, and still later industrial plastic centers. Gear boxes and lost castings improved over the years. The kits were offered in 3 separately priced sections - boiler, chassis, and tender). CLW offered kits for both PRR low side and raised bunker Lines West protypes. Early tender kits had cast metal sides - later kits featured photo etched brass bodies. CLW H10's are frequently seen at O scale 2 rail shows and in on-line listings. If you're looking for a CLW tender I recommend posting a want-to-buy listing on the Groups.IO OSCALEYARDSALE.
Ed,
Thank for your input. I'm going to get some more photos of it now and post them. I was wondering if it could be a CLW. It is heavy, but there are no markings on it. I'll photograph it from a few angles and get your professional opinion. I'm now going to the 2R show in Chicago. Maybe I can find a tender there.
Ron - Thanks for your spreadsheet! I model roughly 1953-1960 which is of course a broad time period, but it's my railroad and I have a Gem F-3 Mogol that miraculously survived into 1953 so I'm not being totally prototypical. It's just nice to have a smaller freight locomotives for those local jobs.
Sun finally came out in sunny Arizona after catching our version of CA's storm of the year most of the week. Be right back!
Thanks all for the input!
@Dennis Holler posted:I recently got this one from Carey Williams, it was one of a couple that a fellow out west had scratch built long ago. Carey kept the E6 style Atlantic but this one with it's driver issues was allowed to move on.
Dennis
I believe those were the two outside third rail engines purchased by Carey from me; I picked them up off eBay (for not much). If I remember correctly, the seller was located in Pennsylvania...(?)
I got the E6 to where it would run, but over all realized these were well beyond my scope, and he was interested, so...
Glad they both found good homes.
Mark in Oregon
44 tonner doing some switching of auto carriers 
Okay. New photos fresh out of the developing solution ... as if! Done at least with my DSLR for better fidelity. Driver centers are brass, and the shell is cast brass. It's certainly heavy. Note that the two center drivers are blind also. Again, no markings on this one. The headlight needs some help for sure, but that is an easy replacement. I guess I'll need to find a suitable H10 number for it that was still active in the 1950's. As I recall my PRR Divisions, the EA would be eastern division, but I'm drawing a blank the CTE markings. I seem to recall I knew this at one time.
Another recent addition to the PRR passenger pool. I've been looking for a reasonably priced one of these for a long time. GGD PB70. These were pretty common on the NY&LB versus the full B70 or B60 baggage cars. Happy to have finally tracked one down.
@Strummer posted:Dennis
I believe those were the two outside third rail engines purchased by Carey from me; I picked them up off eBay (for not much). If I remember correctly, the seller was located in Pennsylvania...(?)
I got the E6 to where it would run, but over all realized these were well beyond my scope, and he was interested, so...
Glad they both found good homes.
Mark in Oregon
Yes. He said he got them from someone on the west coast, small world! Seems like the builder did have some skill, it’s really solid, maybe a bit crude here and there but I like it. Hope to get it running again. If you have any history would love to here it!
Jonathan
The photos show it to be CLW. You can determine its relative vintage by scratching the gearbox housing to see if it is brass or later industrial plastic. The drivers appear to have lost wax cast brass centers with steel tires - IMO the best variant. With care you should be able to slowly bend the brass braces, steps and handrails back into shape. The round red number plate should be repainted black with buff edges and numbers. If some day you want to install a DCC sound decoder, you'll want to replace the open frame motor with a good quality can motor. When you acquire a suitable tender, you'll probably want to strip the boiler and paint it and the tender to match. If you need replacement casting drop me a line as I have a large quantity of PRR lost wax casting acquired over many years.
Check out the virgin 3 section CLW H10 kit on thebay. The listing has interesting photos of what is in each section, including a photo of the etched brass tender shell.
@Dennis Holler posted:I recently got this one from Carey Williams, it was one of a couple that a fellow out west had scratch built long ago. Carey kept the E6 style Atlantic but this one with it's driver issues was allowed to move on. It was built with 700E drivers and evidently the rear two disintegrated and a failed attempt to replace them was made by another owner. I've straightened the cab out and found a couple more 700E wheels, I just need to got on the lathe and make a new axle and set of bushings for them. It is sort of like a K29 which was one of the Alco experimental locos that the PRR played with early on that led to the K2,3 and finally the K4. BTW this one is huge, very tall, probably 17/64ths in general. Departures from the K29 are dome location, trailing truck and the headlight... oh and the valve gear lol. Tender is who know's what. but I 'll probably pretend it is the K29 and repaint and letter it for that.
Nice finds Dennis
@Keystoned Ed posted:Jonathan
The photos show it to be CLW. You can determine its relative vintage by scratching the gearbox housing to see if it is brass or later industrial plastic. The drivers appear to have lost wax cast brass centers with steel tires - IMO the best variant. With care you should be able to slowly bend the brass braces, steps and handrails back into shape. The round red number plate should be repainted black with buff edges and numbers. If some day you want to install a DCC sound decoder, you'll want to replace the open frame motor with a good quality can motor. When you acquire a suitable tender, you'll probably want to strip the boiler and paint it and the tender to match. If you need replacement casting drop me a line as I have a large quantity of PRR lost wax casting acquired over many years.
Thanks for the positive identification Ed. I checked and this has the brass gearbox housing. Sounds like I found a good one by accident! Ran across while searching for an E6.
This was the search that led me find the CLW H10. Needs a little repair work on the headlight and lighting in general, but I'm happy to finally have a 2 rail E6 in the collection. I sold my 3 rail one a few years ago in anticipation of finding a nice 2 Rail version. I like that is has the later high coal bunker on the tender. This is Korean made Sunset.
@GG1 4877 posted:This was the search that led me find the CLW H10. Needs a little repair work on the headlight and lighting in general, but I'm happy to finally have a 2 rail E6 in the collection. I sold my 3 rail one a few years ago in anticipation of finding a nice 2 Rail version. I like that is has the later high coal bunker on the tender. This is Korean made Sunset.
Well GG1 another great looking Loco where do you find the space to store all your items Thanks for sharing!
@Sitka posted:Well GG1 another great looking Loco where do you find the space to store all your items
This is an ongoing negotiation with my wife. The details of said agreement are classified. In all seriousness, I'm working on getting organized enough to sell off a lot of unwanted items that have ended up in my collection over the years. One of my sheds is not as watertight as I'd like and while it doesn't rain here a lot, we are in the middle of our winter rainy season, and I need to get into that shed before I end up just having to throw a lot away.
All the "valuable" items live inside the house and my wife is very gracious to allow me to store them in various nooks and crannies as long as they aren't in the "public" parts of the house.
Also, I'm getting the point where I am satisfied with my PRR collection. At this point most items would be an upgrade over the existing fleet, although I'd like to add a few era specific PRR brass freight cars, a L1s Mikado, and always room for another scale GG1 if one presents itself. My CNJ side needs some help too, but the market of prototypically accurate models is a bit lacking there. That will be more of a modeling effort versus a collecting effort.
The big picture is that my wife is likely going to get a sizeable promotion at her company which would necessitate a move in the next 5 years. Our plan is to find a place that affords us both the opportunity to more fully enjoy our hobbies and a permanent train layout is part my goal.
Now back on topic, some ancient photos of random PRR pieces in my collection that really have not had a home at this point.
This car has an interesting heritage in my collection. It is a 1960's era tin extruded car and it came to me with some really bad cast 2 rail trucks from a TCA Desert Division swap meet around 2007 for a whopping $25. It was painted for UP. I added the Kadee couplers and modified it with K-Line trucks.
I initially repainted it for PRR, specifically as a fictional part of the Blue Ribbon fleet.
Later, I repainted it again, this time for another fictional PRR baggage coach in a later paint scheme but removed two of the vertical window mullions for a more modern appearance and swapped out the wheelsets for scale 36" wheels over the K-line 33" ones. Looking at this photo all these years later, I probably should have left it this way. However, currently the car is in pieces and painted in full Platinum Mist as a candidate for a Baggage-Dorm for my Amtrak era Broadway limited that I hope to get to one day.
Another random car that is not technically PRR, but came as part of a box of Walthers kits. Again a 1960's tin 2 rail car with cast trucks. Doing my research, "Green River" was an actual L&N 10-6 sleeper painted in PRR colors for through service. The only error on this car is that the L&N lettering on the prototype is block lettering and not script. I don't model PRR long distance trains, but this one is interesting enough to keep as is, defects and all.
Pennsy passengers loading the Broadway Limited.
P.R.R. No.93 The South Wind Vista Dome from Miami to Chicago still hunting for a photo
Cross posting, but my newest acquisition of an Alco Models N6a cabin car. Even though the wood cabins were a Lines West creation mainly, it will look good pulling a local on a NJ agricultural branch.
@Sitka posted:P.R.R. No.93 The South Wind Vista Dome from Miami to Chicago still hunting for a photo
I too would like to see a photo of the dome on this train. In all my years of searching PRR photos, I have yet to find one. I find this especially intriguing considering how many photos of the PRR exist.
@GG1 4877 posted:I too would like to see a photo of the dome on this train. In all my years of searching PRR photos, I have yet to find one. I find this especially intriguing considering how many photos of the PRR exist.
On the web site Passenger Train Journal there is a photo from 1966 that shows a PRR train with a dome way in the background. The caption states that a leased Northern Pacific dome-sleeper is on the train for the upcoming winter season.
Until sitka's post I did not know the PRR ran any domes due to the low tunnel clearances on their trackage.
The info I've seen is that PRR leased a Northern Pacific dome car for the South Wind for several years, but only in the Winter months. The South Wind was only on PRR tracks from Chicago to Louisville and there are no tunnels on that line.
On page 19 in The Pennsy Diesel Years Volume 6 there is a good picture of the Northern Pacific dome sleeper. It’s part of the South Wind on the way to Florida.
@ncdave posted:On page 19 in The Pennsy Diesel Years Volume 6 there is a good picture of the Northern Pacific dome sleeper. It’s part of the South Wind on the way to Florida.
Good fine Dave, been looking for a photo for awhile the only thing I came across is that they were leased.
Thanks for the input Mark
Ran a PW Lionel GG-1 2332 from 47-49 and Williams passenger cars. Fine running engine.
Not really what I model but found a good price on this and I'll certainly justify a reason why it got to run in commuter service. Regardless, it is such a beautiful locomotive and my favorite of the streamlined PRR locomotives. This is an Alco model most likely manufactured by Samhongsa in Korea.
@GG1 4877 posted:Not really what I model but found a good price on this and I'll certainly justify a reason why it got to run in commuter service.
I'd jump on that too. She's a beauty.
New kid on the roster hurrying refreshments for the poor dehydrated souls on the other end of the layout.
PREMIER USRA 0-6-0 .
Have a great one and God speed all. 
.
Finally sourced some dummy couplers for this MPC Baby Madison RPO. I had repaired the powered trucks and lighting a while back. Gonna add a Doodlebug to the fleet for power. My WbB 44 tonner will take the lead for now.
A great trailing car for a doodlebug!
@GG1 4877 posted:A great trailing car for a doodlebug!
Exactly what I thought. The graphics are sharp and the car is in great shape. I might even get inspired to add an interior........right after the other 1000 projects I have in mind......
@GG1 4877 posted:Not really what I model but found a good price on this and I'll certainly justify a reason why it got to run in commuter service.
Great detail sharp!
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