Protosound 2.0 to TMCC Upgrade

Well, you can't use the PS/2 smoke unit unmodified for TMCC, the 8 ohms for the smoke resistors is far too low.  Also, there is no power supply for the fan motor, that's part of the PS/2 board.

When I do these, I use my Super-Chuffer to control the smoke unit, and I also change out the resistors in the smoke unit to be TMCC compatible.  You will have to add a chuff switch, if you wait a spell, I'll have a cool option that is much easier to install to generate the chuffs.  Take a look at my thread Super-Chuffer Chuff Generation Enhancement, that's how I'll be doing chuffs when I get production boards.

I looked at your Super-Chuffer-Chuff Generation and it looks fantastic and that will be a great choice. I forgot to mention it is not a steam locomotive but a F-3 that is made almost identical to the PW Lionel made. If this is the case can the PS 2 unit be used with no modification?

Well, for a diesel, you don't need chuffs, so that's not an issue.  However, you do still have to change the resistors in the smoke unit and also supply the 5VDC for the fan.  You can "roll your own" power for the fan pretty easily.

Thanks much John this is what I was looking for.

John....

I assume this is also a great way to provide proper power load to the smoke unit in a PS1 Big Boy from 1999 MTH ?  I have upgraded to TMCC with ERR, but the smoke unit sometimes ceases to function when run above 14V.  Other than that, it all works/sounds great.  Another question I have put forth a couple years ago:  The sound chips in MTH PS1, (particularly the U.P. Turbines/sequences, etc.) are what I like a lot about them.  I have not seen where it would be possible to retain the same sounds with a TMCC upgrade.  What are your thoughts, input on this?  Do you, or GGG, know of any way to do a PS1 upgrade to TMCC and still have the same sounds/sequences in an MTH engine, particularly the U.P. Turbines?

Jesse

TCA 12-68275

Ed Bender from Digital dynamics came out with a board called the "equalizer) which converted your proto-1 engine  to TMCC. The top proto-1 board plugged into the equalizer,.  Not a great success because cruise was becoming  the" In "thing.  no cruise, however with the motors in series  it was much better.

I'm sure there must be the odd board ( equalizer)  kicking around. I  upgraded a few engines and they were OK . .  Not a big fan but  it's possible.   

Gregg,

  So, with the TMCC upgrade with the Digital Dynamics "Equalizer" in a PS1 engine, all other sounds/functions were retained?  I did have one of the Digital Dynamics "equalizer" boards, used it to upgrade a K-Line/Lionel SD-75M back in 2007.  I do like the way it functions in that engine, I was very disappointed when I found they were out-of-business and the product no longer available.  Thanks for the input and heads-up on installation with PS1 engines.  Would be great if someone would again produce a board with same functions, or very similar, and allow TMCC in PS1 and retaining sounds for the unique forms of motive power.

Thanks, Gregg......

Jesse

RRADDICT2,

    I am having a hard time understanding how you think a P2 engine is being upgraded by changing it over to TMCC.   Invest in a DCS and run your TMCC & your DCS together, why waste the money changing a good P2 Engine over to TMCC, when in fact it's probably a down grade.  If you already own the Legacy 990 Base, cable them together and run all your P2 & TMCC/Legacy Engine at the same time.  

PCRR/Dave

texastrain posted:

John....

I assume this is also a great way to provide proper power load to the smoke unit in a PS1 Big Boy from 1999 MTH ?  I have upgraded to TMCC with ERR, but the smoke unit sometimes ceases to function when run above 14V.  Other than that, it all works/sounds great.  Another question I have put forth a couple years ago:  The sound chips in MTH PS1, (particularly the U.P. Turbines/sequences, etc.) are what I like a lot about them.  I have not seen where it would be possible to retain the same sounds with a TMCC upgrade.  What are your thoughts, input on this?  Do you, or GGG, know of any way to do a PS1 upgrade to TMCC and still have the same sounds/sequences in an MTH engine, particularly the U.P. Turbines?

Jesse

TCA 12-68275

Actually, the PS/1 smoke unit should run off track power and has a power supply for the fan.  If it stops working at higher voltages, that's a component failure on the smoke unit, it can be fixed.  Actually, if it only fails above about 14V, I'd check the smoke resistors.  Only one is used at lower voltages, and both kick in in series around 11-12 volts.  If one were open, the smoke would cut off.

I've fooled with the Equalizer boards, but I wasn't impressed.  It was just a bit too quirky for me, YMMV.

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

I am having a hard time understanding how you think a P2 engine is being upgraded by changing it over to TMCC.

As hard as it is for you to accept, there are people that don't like DCS, have trouble getting it to run with reliability, etc.  I have had several customers convert from PS/2 to TMCC.  I'm working on one guy's engines, he's going to end up converting about 8-9 engines to TMCC.  He was never happy with DCS and the operation, and TMCC/Legacy runs flawlessly for him.

Chocolate and vanilla, flavors for everyone.

To keep the scales even, I've "upgraded" some the other way as well.

I have a client that has had dozens of MTH locos changed to TMCC with ERR products.  He has sixty plus locos and wanted them all the same.

My kind of customer.   Lots of work!

3 rail alco doctor posted:

I have a client that has had dozens of MTH locos changed to TMCC with ERR products.  He has sixty plus locos and wanted them all the same.

I would do the same. I really don't care for the suggestion of buying both control systems. It just seems like a ragged approach. I'd want the whole roster to be under the same system. 

How can I get my hands on a couple of these used PS2 setups?

I need a steam ps2 board setup, if yinz want to sell the boards and wiring.  I also need 2 diesel setups if anybody has them for ps2.  

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I would struggle to view a ps2 to tmcc conversion as an "upgrade".  

Gentlemen,

    Because I like and run both DCS & Legacy and find them to both be outstanding Remote Control Units that operate in a different Engineering manner, converting a P2 engine to a TMCC (ERR) makes little engineering sense, 1st you purchased the P2 then pay for the labor & electronics to be changed to ERR.   You are probably paying more money in the long run, than just purchasing an original TMCC engine.  Each to his own  however, I like the DCS & Legacy run together so you can operate TMCC/Legacy & P2/P3 Engines all at one time.

TODD,

   I agree 100%, even the Legacy would not be an actual upgrade, the DCS still controls most everything, but not the other way around.

PCRR/Dave

I use DCS w/ my tmcc command base to run both tmcc and ps2 loco's. Personally,I think there is slightly more of a learning curve to DCS where as TMCC is a little easier to set-up and use IMO. Granted, I don't have Legacy, or any Legacy loco's for that matter, so I really can't comment on that system from experience.

I like DCS, once you get used to it, it's great. And frankly, the main reason I use it is because MTH railking makes all those "traditional" sized pennsy steam loco's that I like. Not to mention P&LE trains that Lionel just doesn't make, so that weighed heavily in my choice for a command system that I was going to use.

Dave,   It does all boil down to what each individual wishes to do, right?  I also have PS2 and PS3 engines in my roster, and would not, at this time, wish to change them over to TMCC.  However, I have changed a few PS1 engines over with ERR upgrades, and very glad I did so.  I do not have Legacy or any DCS, only run TMCC with two ZWC trans and TPC400, along with several PW ZWs, VWs, a Z, etc. and 180 / 135 bricks.  I run the PS2 and PS3 engines in "conventional" and am quite satisfied with such.  It is only the PS1 engines I have revised, and would/will do more if and when I can do so, but retain the original sounds/sequences I like about them (U.P. Turbines, for example).  With the large motive power roster I have, prewar, postwar, modern, all manufacturers (including AF O Gauge), I do not wish to make it all the more technical and complicated beyond TMCC and Cab controlled conventional.  This hobby of ours is excellent, just as are the fellow enthusiasts we know.  O Gauge Rail Roads are far from being extinct and the limits are unending for us all.

Jesse

TCA 12-68275

John,   I just now read your reply about the PS1 smoke unit and the voltages.  Thanks for the excellent  input, sir...... much appreciated.

Jesse

Chris D posted:

I need a steam ps2 board setup, if yinz want to sell the boards and wiring.  I also need 2 diesel setups if anybody has them for ps2.  

Drop me an email, I might be able to help you out.

Sorry I am late getting back to my own post a lot has gone on here.  The reason I am changing over to TMCC is because of multiple bad experience with DCS equipment not their locomotives.  It just got too frustrating having my locomotives not being seen by the TIU or remote for no reason at all.  I have 6 Legacy/TMCC locomotives now and so far not one has been any trouble running or being addressed. I also personally just like the RS better.  So for me because of the reliability factor it is an upgrade. I get to retain the MTH beautiful locomotive and have the command system I want so it's a win win for me.

Hi RRaddict2, Just wondering if you might be into selling a couple of the PS2 for diesel ?

Mike shoot me an e-mail rraddict@gmail.com

Feature wise, PS 2 to TMCC is a downgrade. However, I understand that TMCC is a preferred operating system especially for those who favor Lionel products.

Jesse,

    Now a P1 is a completely different story, now you have a good upgrade of a mostly Conventional engine to TMCC (ERR).  That Jesse is a big win at reasonable money, especially if you only payed just a little for the original P1 Engine.  

PCRR/Dave

All my steamers accept one are MTH and will be getting the TMCC upgrades after John gets his add on to the Super Chuffer finished. Outside of the Lion Chief Plus which I do not want to get involved with, Lionel steamers are out of my price range.  This applies to the used ones as well.  The upgrade to TMCC is a viable option and I only have 1 Protosound 3.0 steamer the rest are either Protosound 1 or whistle only.

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

RRADDICT2,

    I am having a hard time understanding how you think a P2 engine is being upgraded by changing it over to TMCC.   Invest in a DCS and run your TMCC & your DCS together, why waste the money changing a good P2 Engine over to TMCC, when in fact it's probably a down grade.  If you already own the Legacy 990 Base, cable them together and run all your P2 & TMCC/Legacy Engine at the same time.  

PCRR/Dave

Dave, you may not have experienced reliability problems with DCS, but many of us have.  While DCS has substantially more features than TMCC, they are of no use if the system does not perform reliably.  That is a lesson I learned and what caused me to go back to TMCC.  I'm not trying to start a flame war, just reporting my own experience.  If I had not sold my only PS2 locomotive and had a number of other MTH engines, I would also consider converting them to TMCC.

George 

I'm note even sure there are that many more features, at least ones that most folks value.  If I can have great sound, excellent speed control, electrocouplers, directional lighting, etc. exactly what else do I need?  Both DCS and TMCC will yield a great running locomotive, and there's no reason to trash one control system over the other.  Each system offers advantages and disadvantages.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I would struggle to view a ps2 to tmcc conversion as an "upgrade"."

In my experience (and many, many others I've observed or heard from  over the last 14 years), TMCC is more predictable, simple and reliable in terms of communication, trouble shooting and overall operations than DCS.   Not to say some folks don't find DCS completely trouble free; they do; just not as many as TMCC in my experience.  Add the required internal battery in PS2, which can be an operations and maintenance nuisance, and I have no trouble seeing TMCC as an upgrade.  Practice is more important than capabilities to some.  Reliability and functionality more important than features. Your mileage apparently can vary, but struggle no more .