PRR Panhandle 2.0

George,

I only know what you share about steel mills and the railroad tracks that serve them.  That said, I think losing the one staging/holding track is small sacrifice to pay to expand the models of the mill.  You will have to selectively compress everything as it is.  The wye makes sense, and the extra yard trackage seems beneficial to me.

I'll keep watching for others' feedback and updates.

Updated 8/29/2017:

After much thought and measurement, I have constructed a detailed room plan and, within in it, a detailed track plan. Walls (except the top) are shown in black. You can now see the aisle space available.

Let's take a close-up look at the Eastern end of the layout first.

Moving right to left (east to west), here's a partial list of the changes:

• Resizing of the Staging Area.  It is now 6'x11'.  White spaces within are open areas for the operator to stand.  The basement window is shown.  The back of the divider will be used to hold train storage shelving.
• The Weirton Steel area picked up about 11 sq feet (not 22 sq feet).  I think it is enough to accommodate at least part of a blast furnace (cast house, kettle, and 1 stove) jutting out from the backdrop (divider).  The lime green areas are pop-up access hatches.  The back of the Open Hearth building will be open to give access to derailed cars.  The Strip Steel and Blooming Mills will be reachable from underneath.
• The specific track geometries were tweaked.  We have a loop of track within the mill complex for turning a train.  And a wye was added.
• I am looking at using the divider to hold a backdrop composed of Weirton Steel buildings (from a photograph).
• The blackish/dark gray area is Standard Slag; track directly below it is for dumping slag.
• Weirton Junction was lengthened.  The bottom most track is reserved for cabin cars.  The two tracks above it are for freight / steel related cars.
• A doubled-sided backdrop divides Weirton Junction from Weirton itself.  On the Weirton Junction side, this will be a photograph of trees with some actual trees in the foreground.  On the Weirton side, the backdrop will climb as it heads up County Road.  It should just be high enough to split the scenes.
• Aisles are approximately 2.5' to 3' wide.  There is one narrow 2' section near the bridge.  I had to make some real fine adjustments to keep the O72 curves.

Looking at the Western end of the layout:

• The bridge module has been redrawn to accurately reflect the size and position of the approach spans and the arch. Track east of the bridge will be positioned on fill.  I'm trying a new technique here.
• Tracks west of the bridge have wide sweeping curves (O138 in one case).
• The mountain is significantly larger (7'x8') than the one planned for Panhandle 1.0.
• I am still debating the fate of the coal mine.  At this point, I have a lot more space to portray downtown Steubenville and I am inclined to use it for that purpose.
• Below the level of the layout (shown in a yellowish color) is the River Route.  This will be a completely separate loop.  It will use the TPC-400 to permit conventional running and will give any smaller kids a chance to run a train.

I would very much like to hear your thoughts, comments, and questions.

George

George,

Your plan almost overwhelms me!  I'm just looking forward to seeing it all come together!!

Mark Boyce posted:

George,

Your plan almost overwhelms me!  I'm just looking forward to seeing it all come together!!

ROFLMAO.  Mark, sometimes it almost overwhelms me, too! 

There's a lot of work to do.

This time around, I am determined not to be driven by the need to get trains up and running quickly.  I don't have work and kids cutting into my "think" time and pushing me towards quick but temporary band-aids.  The plan is comprehensive because it needs to be.  There are just a lot of moving parts in this layout.  I need to get them right in order to make the layout perform well and look good.

George

Updated 9/2/2017:

• Sorted, labeled, boxed, and stored all the house-hold related items (screws, nails, electrical components, power strips, cable TV parts & pieces).
• Sorted, labeled, boxed, and stored all the excess office supplies (diskettes, CDs, DVDs, computer components, cables, etc.).
• Found three more boxes of odds-n-ends and tools over the past 2 days.  That's all in place or tossed.
• Tossed 4 boxes of work related stuff.
• Tossed a large number of orphan screws and unrecognized 40+ year old junk.
• Moved the last 2 tables (work spaces) into place.
• Started assembling my spray booth.
• Took delivery of the first batch of lumber for the Staging Area.

It's Labor Day, so I'm laboring. 

George

From one who moved just over 4 years ago, that sounds pretty good to me! That's half the battle of getting settled in. The next half is remembering where everything is in it's new home. Even with the labels I still have to search for things every now and then. Sounds like layout building is getting close too! I think it was a couple months short of a year after the move before I got to layout building. Good luck and keep the updates coming!

rtr12 posted:

From one who moved just over 4 years ago, that sounds pretty good to me! That's half the battle of getting settled in. The next half is remembering where everything is in it's new home. Even with the labels I still have to search for things every now and then. Sounds like layout building is getting close too! I think it was a couple months short of a year after the move before I got to layout building. Good luck and keep the updates coming!

Thanks.  I find that if I don't write things down, I just won't remember. 

While the lumber has arrived, I would say that layout building (at least the Staging Area) is probably 1-2 weeks away.  I do want to get shellac on the lumber before too long to prevent warping.

George

Updated 9/9/2017:

• Went through some storage boxes and retrieved a lot of research material.  That's now organized and filed so I can access it.
• Hung all the artwork in the workshop and train room.
• Finished assembling the spray booth.
• Ordered a fence for the drill press.
• Bought screws and carriage bolts, washers, nuts for the Staging Area bench work (and beyond).
• Ordered switches for the Staging Area from Ross Custom Switches.
• Estimated the amount of shelving that will be needed in the Staging Area.  Requested a quote from one of the vendors.
• Started applying shellac to the Staging Area bench work lumber.  That's currently in the garage.

I still have a few more things to do in the workshop before I can declare victory - set up the table saw, get the work spaces cleared, and run the sweeper.  But it's very close.

George

Updated 9/10/2017:

The shellacing process continued today.

Lots left to do, but I'm getting help from wife Judy.

George

George, Sounds like you are getting all your materials together now that you are fairly well organized after the move.  Wasn't it a great day to have the door open and do the shellacking?  I'm glad you mentioned Judy's name; I wasn't sure I remembered it after I met both of you late last winter.  Aren't both of our wives wonderful!

Yeah, without the support of our spouses it just wouldn't be as much fun. 

George

Updated 9/21/2017:

And so the real work on PRR Panhandle 2.0 begins.

First, the clean slate. This is the far right end of the plan that will become the Staging Area.

I believe, thanks to my wonderful wife Judy, that the issue with applying shellac has been solved.  She found some old t-shirts (cotton) and helped me apply the stuff evenly to the spruce 2"x2"s.  I have been pretty frustrated looking on-line for rags and only finding expensive bundles of painters cloths. The answer is pretty simple - go to Goodwill or a dollar store and buy some cotton t-shirts.

For spreading stain or shellac, old t-shirts cost less and work better than the commercial rags at Walmart, HD, or Lowes. And these stores don't even carry them. They have to be ordered.

We applied the shellac in the garage. The 2 bundles to the right are the poplar legs that will be used for the most visible parts of the layout. We are going to try out some stain on them tomorrow.

In this photo, the topmost 2"x4"x10' had shellac brushed on (I will hide them deep under the layout). The 2"x2"s in the foreground had shellac applied with cotton t-shirts.  Wow, what a difference!

We are officially rolling on Panhandle 2.0 construction!!   

George

George, Glad to see things are progressing. I didn't notice if you said you only bought the legs so far? 

Tom 

MNCW posted:

George, Glad to see things are progressing. I didn't notice if you said you only bought the legs so far? 

Tom 

Tom,

I bought all the lumber for the Staging Area, including spruce legs (2"x2").  But I didn't care for the legs.  And I didn't have a good way to apply shellac to them;  I wasn't happy with the way they turned out.  So, I am going use those spruce 2"x2" legs in the interior of the layout.  I bought some poplar 2"x2"s to use for legs that will be visible (to visitors) on the outer perimeter of the layout.

My short-term construction schedule is as follows:

1. Complete the application of shellac to all the lumber to be used in the Staging Area.
2. Install train storage shelves on the wall.
3. Assemble the 3 train tables of Staging Area.
4. Install the 6 tall 2"x2"s that will support the sheets of masonite (from table top to ceiling).
5. Install the masonite (this will support a backdrop).
6. Install the other train storage shelves on the tall 2"x2"s.
7. Complete the photo-shoot for the backdrop.
8. Install the backdrop across the left, back, and right (masonite) walls of the layout.

It's a guess, but the above should take me until January (I hope).

After that, I will work on the remainder of the layout (too many steps to identify individually).

George

George,

I have a bag of old tee-shirts of mine that are awaiting jobs like staining etc.  They do work good.  Yes, the thrift store is a great source if you don't have any on hand.  Doing that ahead of time is a good idea; better than waiting until benchwork is built.  The room looks very inviting and the track lights look like they will give ample lighting.  That is a good list of tasks in the correct order.  How many of us build then try to fit a backdrop in later.  I did, but I had rear access on my last N-scale layout.  This time the backdrops will go up early.  You already know what they look like.  I'll look forward to seeing your photo backdrops!

Mark Boyce posted:

George,

I have a bag of old tee-shirts of mine that are awaiting jobs like staining etc.  They do work good.  Yes, the thrift store is a great source if you don't have any on hand.  Doing that ahead of time is a good idea; better than waiting until benchwork is built.  The room looks very inviting and the track lights look like they will give ample lighting.  That is a good list of tasks in the correct order.  How many of us build then try to fit a backdrop in later.  I did, but I had rear access on my last N-scale layout.  This time the backdrops will go up early.  You already know what they look like.  I'll look forward to seeing your photo backdrops!

Yeah, I really learned my lesson regarding installing the backdrop first.  I never want to repeat that massive headache I suffered with Panhandle 1.0.

I'm looking forward to seeing your layout and backdrops.

George

Yes George, I'm looking forward to seeing it too!  

I may get a little extra time this fall, as I am only going to be working 3 days a week for a while.  First I need to get over this sinus infection so I can get my cataract surgeries, then I should be good to go!  I was clearing some stuff out of the area I want to start benchwork first, and stopped felling wiped out.  

I'm playing catch up, looks good so far George.

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I'm playing catch up, looks good so far George.

Thanks.  It's going to be a long marathon.

George

Updated 9/27/2017:

I was having second thoughts about my initial choice of 48" layout height.  Panhandle 1.0 was at 46" at Steubenville and 42" at Weirton initially, but I elevated Weirton to around 44" in the re-build.  I was contemplating installing the new layout at an overall height of 44" (there are no grades).

I took the suggestion of a friend and mocked up various heights using a wardrobe box left over from the move.  I put a car on the box and tested the amount of bending needed to view it.  I believe I have enough access holes so that reaching for or picking up a locomotive is not a concern.  To my own surprise, I have settled on a height of 50". From the bottom up, that's:

• 1.5" glide length (adjustable)
• 46.5" leg length
• 1.5" rib thickness
• 19/32" plywood table thickness

Subtract approximately 1/16" by adjusting the glide and you've got 50" height floor to table top.

George

Just wanted to ask. Will you be using only cabeese labeled from the Central Region? I thought that was where the Panhandle was. I know that MTH makes N8's lettered for the Central Region but other than that.. I assume you will customize your own?

I like a higher layout height than most folks too, George.

RaritanRiverRailroadFan4 posted:

Just wanted to ask. Will you be using only cabeese labeled from the Central Region? I thought that was where the Panhandle was. I know that MTH makes N8's lettered for the Central Region but other than that.. I assume you will customize your own?

Joe,

I honestly haven't given it much thought.  I have a couple of MTH N8's, but don't recall their regional markings. 

I tend to favor the N6b, the cabin car designed for tunnel clearances on the Panhandle.   Current roster is:

• 3 N5b's
• 6 N5c's
• 8 N6b's
• 2 N8's

Honestly, I don't need any more cabin cars. 

Will I re-letter them?  Seems unlikely as there are a ton of more pressing items demanding my attention. 

George

Updated 9/28/2017:

Installation of train shelving has begun.

I have decided on the power districts for the layout.  There will be 8 and power will be supplied by 6 Lionel Power House 180 watt bricks.  Current thinking is:

• Steubenville (part of the mainline) supplied by PH180 #1
• Coal Mine spur (may end up being renamed and / or re-purposed) supplied by PH180 #2
• River Route supplied by PH180 #2
• PRR Bridge (part of the mainline) supplied by PH180 #3
• Weirton Junction Yard supplied by PH180 #3
• Weirton (part of the mainline) supplied by PH180 #4
• Weirton Steel Yard supplied by PH180 #5
• Staging Area supplied by PH180 #6

The yards sharing a PowerHouse 180 lack enough activity to justify their own power supply.

George

Is the shelving going to be on the long wall at the bottom of your track plans?  I am thinking you said the backdrop will go on the wall at the top of the plan.

Mark,

Shelving will go on the wall facing the viewer in this photo.  Once the masonite divider is up (the right side of the backdrop will go on it), approximately this side of the window (closer to the viewer), then the other set of shelves will go on its back side.

Did that make sense?

George

Ah ha!  Yes that makes sense, George!  Thank you!

Such a pristine room!

Mark Boyce posted:

 

Such a pristine room!

Just the part you can see, LOL!

Updated 10/6/2017:

With my wife's help, I managed to get all the train shelving (Glenn Snyder Display System) on the far wall installed.

The shelves are 9' across (6' + 3') and anchored to studs. The lowest shelf starts at 59" above the floor, giving me the option to raise the layout height to 53" if I so desire (I don't). It will stay at 50". At least that's what I think right now.

I like them! 

George

I'm glad you got the shelves finished.  They look good!

Mark Boyce posted:

I'm glad you got the shelves finished.  They look good!

Thanks Mark!  They turned out OK and now I can get to some of the Staging Area benchwork.

George

Updated 10/8/2017:

The photographer will be here tomorrow to inspect the train room and get an understanding of size and position for the backdrop. To prepare, I took a laser level and established the 50" layout height all around the train room. I also placed the bridge in its approximate location and orientation. From west to east (left to right):

The red laser line is visible in this photo. I have used yellow post-it notes to indicate the height on the walls.

The brown paper wrapped object is the bridge. I'm keeping it in its protective cocoon.

The bins at the far end of the room denote the position of the backdrop.

George

George, I think that should give the photographer a good idea of the space he has to work with in printing the backdrops

Updated 10/24/2017:

After a lot of thought, I have come up with the power distribution plan for the new layout. The board uses a Block Power Controller (BPC) and 2 Track Power Controllers (a TPC300 and a TPC400). The blocks are reworked as follows:

1 Steubenville (mainline) powered by a Power House 180
2 PRR Bridge (mainline) powered by a Power House 180
3 Weirton (mainline) powered by a Power House 180
4 Weirton Steel (yard) powered by a Power House 180
5 Coal Mine (yard) powered by a Power House 135 attached to a TPC300 and a Block Power Controller
6 Weirton Junction (yard) powered by the same PH135, TPC300, and BPC controls above.
7 River Route (branch line) powered by the same PH135, TPC300, and BPC controls above.
8 Staging Area (yard) powered by a Power House 180

The components should give me the ability to:

• Shut power on/off selectively to each of the yards using the BPC.
• Run trains on the River Route in either Conventional or Command mode using the TPC300. Since that is just a loop, it's perfect for Christmas trains or train running by grandchildren w/o affecting the trains of bigger kids (like myself  ).

The power distribution panel itself will measure 30" H x 8' W. It will feature light bulbs (to indicate power), fuses, and labels for each of the 8 power districts. Transformers and Power Houses will sit on a TV cart that can be rolled away from the layout for maintenance work on the board. AC accessories and switch buses will be supplied by K-Line PowerChief 120F transformers. DC accessories and lights will be supplied by a 3VDC wall wart (traffic lights, telephone pole lights), 5VDC power supply (TBD), and a 12VDC power supply (animations and lights).

I like this design.  It's less cluttered and (I think) a big improvement over the Panhandle 1.0 board.

Your comments are welcome.

George

My only thought would be a toggle switch for each yard track that an engine could possibly be parked on so you could shut off power to it and still use the remaining track in the yard. Just to keep the electronics off while not in use. I have both DCS and Legacy, but am much more familiar with the workings of DCS. The chrono and run time keep adding up when an MTH engine sits on a powered track. 

Having said that, I am a real novice as to railroad operations so this may not make sense in the applications you have in mind here. Your layout is going to be much more elaborate then mine as well. It was just a thought and something I added after the fact on my layout that is far from being finished. Still in the development/re-development stages and needs to be expanded, but it allows train running while the thought process continues! Probably won't look anything like it does now if it ever gets finished...

Updated 11/1/2017:

While I haven't posted here in awhile, I have been busy. I don't have a lot of tangible output to share, but I have been:

• Putting together a track / switch order to beat Ross Custom Switches' price increase.
• Examining the plans and making some size and construction decisions about the Open Hearth. The mill itself will be 36"wide x 68" long.
• Re-working the track plan to include the Open Hearth's:
  • Charging track (holds the small flat cars containing materials for charging the furnaces)
  • Charging machine track (I decided to use a GarGraves gantry crane track to construct this wide track); this is the machine that pushes materials into the open hearth furnaces.
  • Hot metal transfer track (bottle cars will use this to pour their loads into the transfer ladles)
  • Run-around track (per Chuck's suggestion). This will pass under the hot metal transfer track and through the Open Hearth.
  • Pouring track - where ingot cars with their loads will exit the Open Hearth

All of this was necessary to generate the Ross order and make sure that the remaining track orders are correct.

George

Yes George, that is a good idea to get all this worked out to get the order in before Steve has to increase the prices.  I was able to buy the last Ross switches I wanted at York.  I got the opportunity to talk with Steve for just a minute.  He and his workers were very busy filling orders.  

Here's a visual.

From the front of the mill (left to right):

• Pouring track
• Charging box track (at rear of mill)
• Charging machine (wide) track (also at rear of mill)
• Run-around track (front at ground level)
• Hot metal transfer track (directly above it and charging floor). This is not visible or labeled per se.  I don't have enough real estate to take this track up to this level and keep the run-around track below it.

The three spurs to the right are for the blast furnace.

George

Updated 11/17/2017:

I've made some progress, although it's not particularly visible.

• Earlier in the week, I traveled to Central PA and picked up the bridge approach sections and the two (final) bridge abutments.
• I also retrieved the switches for the Staging Area track.
• I have also been wrestling with the design of the Open Hearth building. Design aspects in play:
  • Number and placement of large columns.
  • Number and placement of small columns.
  • Kind and number of Plastruct components required for the above as well as sources and prices (this building could get very pricey!)

George

George,

I'm glad you finally got the bridge approach sections and abutments.  Having seen the length of the main span, how long with the whole assembled bridge be?

Yes I am sure all those Plastruct parts really add up in cost.