Hi Mark,
The Steubenville approach adds 15". The Weirton approaches add 39". We have a total length of 11'6".
George
Ha, ha!! 11' 6" is the exact length of my new train room! Yes that will be something great to behold on your new layout!!!
Updated 11/24/2017:
- Reviewed my photos of the Open Hearth mill and did some more focused calculations. I have now determined the correct proportions for the structure.
- Got the PowerHouse 135's from Chris (thank you!).
- Received some Plastruct that I will use to build a prototype truss & jig.
George
Updated 11/30/2017:
- Had my trigger finger surgery this morning - recovery in progress.
- Over the past 6 days, in between Thanksgiving and kid visits, I determined the correct dimensions of ladles and bridge cranes for the Open Hearth. That led to yet another recalculation of building height and proportion values. The Charging side of the Open Hearth is elevated; fitting the crane's height and the ladle size into the smaller bay didn't work as planned. As a result, the height of building needed to be increased. Even with more height, it turned out that the plan to put the Run-Around Track through the Open Hearth was unworkable. I have re-routed the Run-Around Track to outside the building (part of the Blast Furnace complex).
- Here's the original plan.
- Here's the new plan, which eliminates 1 switch.
George
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George,
I am glad you got the trigger finger surgery taken care of. I hope you have a speedy recovery. My wife had a quick recovery from hers early this year.
Yes, I see the movement of the run around track. Looks good, and eliminating one switch is good when you need so many to handle your traffic!
Mark Boyce posted:George,
I am glad you got the trigger finger surgery taken care of. I hope you have a speedy recovery. My wife had a quick recovery from hers early this year.
Yes, I see the movement of the run around track. Looks good, and eliminating one switch is good when you need so many to handle your traffic!
I have been suffering with the finger problem since the beginning of 2017. Cant't wait till it fully recovers.
It's funny how all these aspects of the mill are tied together and end up impacting the track plan.
George
Updated 12/16/2017:
- Stitches are out of the hand and healing is under way. Feels pretty good at this stage.
- Placed my order for Plastruct for two building projects.
- Unpacked and set up my hobby table saw.
- Moved enough of the lumber in the garage to bring the car inside (Trust me, this was a big contributor to continued hobby activities and domestic tranquility.
)
George
George, I'm glad it is healing well! That is good progress getting all that out of the garage. We have been in this house almost 7 years and still can't get a car in the garage. At least I am not to blame for this!!!
Mark Boyce posted:George, I'm glad it is healing well! That is good progress getting all that out of the garage. We have been in this house almost 7 years and still can't get a car in the garage. At least I am not to blame for this!!!
Mark, I didn't say that I got that lumber out of the garage. 
Oh, yes I didn't read close enough!! you are right!
Updated 1/14/2018:
I've been working with the backdrop photographer and I'm happy to say we are making progress. One of the things I wanted to do with the rightmost side of the backdrop was incorporate a blast furnace. The original idea was to have part of the blast furnace represented in the backdrop with the rest (the cast house) protruding from the wall. That hasn't worked out as I can't get the blast furnaces to pose at the correct angle. 
Instead, the backdrop will come from a photo I took back in 2005; it contains 3 of the 4 Weirton blast furnaces. Given that the backdrop already represents blast furnaces, I have decided that a model blast furnace is unnecessary (as well as probably beyond my skills).
Accordingly, I am going to substitute the Strip Steel (Rolling Mill) building for a blast furnace. Originally the Strip Steel building was slated for a corner at the back of the layout, but there is enough space (42" wide) for it at the front. It is an interesting 7 bay, two-story brick structure with open square roof ventilators or "penthouses". The original brick color was yellow and the building had a roof-top "WEIRTON STEEL CO." sign. It is to the far right in the photo below.
I will probably put the "run-around" track between it and the Open Hearth. The building itself will have a spur running into it. That wasn't true of the prototype (at least in the front) but I'm invoking "modeler's license". 
George
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George,
Those belligerent blast furnaces!! Always causing trouble! I was just wondering yesterday what you were up to. A model of a blast furnace is more than I would want to undertake that is for sure! I think the rolling mill building will create a lot of interest and is a good choice instead! You have to use modelers' license to do all you want to in your space!
Mark Boyce posted:George,
Those belligerent blast furnaces!! Always causing trouble!
Well, I have plans for one and they are huge consumers of real estate. Plus they have piping to sustain Plastruct for the next 20 years!
The Strip Steel will be an interesting building in its 1950's paint scheme and configuration. Here's what it looks like now.
George
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Yes George, I think that will be an interesting build!!
Updated 1/19/2018:
Since a picture is worth 1,000 words, here's what the plan for Weirton Steel looked like a few days ago.
I have since re-thought the area. As previously mentioned, I have:
- Removed the blast furnace
- Reworked the track plan
- Added the Strip Steel (actually increasing its foot print somewhat)
- Added a compressed air tank structure
- Added a coil field / yard
- Am toying with a gantry-style crane to load trailor trucks with coils; Weir-Cove Moving & Storage did this for the prototype.
George
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Warning: Slight thread drift.
I'm happy to announce that my short article and photo spread on Weirton Steel in the 1950's was published in the January edition of the Steel Mill Modeler's Journal. This is the quarterly publication of the NMRA Steel Mill Modeler's Special Interest Group.
George
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Congratulations, George!
Mark Boyce posted:Congratulations, George!
Thank you, Mark. I think the best part of this was the publicity given to the Weirton Area Museum and Cultural Center. They made the whole thing possible.
George
Yes, I would have to agree with you. It is a great means to get the word around!
Updated 2/6/2018:
As a result of the Weirton Steel article in the Steel Mill Modelers Journal, I was asked to do a clinic on modeling Weirton Steel for the local NMRA Division (Mid-Continent Division 2 - Keystone). But that's beside the point. Working on the clinic slides gave me the opportunity to look at prototype photos again and revisit some of my assumptions on train operations in and around the steel mill. Of course, the result was a tweak or two for the layout. 
- So that Blast Furnace traffic can be exchanged, the reversing / run-around track now passes through the backdrop into the Staging Area in two places. Loaded coal hoppers and ore jennies will arrive, go behind the backdrop into the Staging Area, and be exchanged for empties that pass out. Likewise, loaded slag cars and hot metal cars will exit Staging near the Blast Furnace area and return empty.
- The backdrop changes resulted in a better organization of access hatches. I can now easily get to the back of the Open Hearth and Blooming Mills to fix derailments or maintain the electronics in the buildings. That's a better decision; I know there may be problems and I now have a way to handle them. The buildings will have removable back panels for this purpose.
- I added a pipe bridge along the side of the Strip Steel building as well as piping detail across the front.
Here are the changes to the track plan.
Also, the backdrop has gone to the printers. I expect to see it shortly.
George
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George,
Congratulations on the invitation to present your research! I'm sure the audience will learn a lot!!
Your changes to the plan should make it better! I'm glad you are getting the backdrop printed, but I have a question. Is the is the backdrop of the mill or the river scene, or have you been able to get all of it digitally blended into one big backdrop?
Mark Boyce posted:George,
Congratulations on the invitation to present your research! I'm sure the audience will learn a lot!!
Your changes to the plan should make it better! I'm glad you are getting the backdrop printed, but I have a question. Is the is the backdrop of the mill or the river scene, or have you been able to get all of it digitally blended into one big backdrop?
Thank you, Mark.
The backdrop is actually composed of 5 large photos. The rightmost photo is of the mill. And yes, it is blended.
George
That sounds great!!!
Updated 2/15/2018:
The backdrop arrived several days ago. Here's a look at it.
Some notes:
- Panel 1 is against the left wall. A styrofoam mountain in the corner will tie it and Panel 2A together.
- Panel 2 has two lengthwise parts (A & B)
- Panel 3 has two parts (Top & Bottom)
- Panel 4 has two lengthwise parts (A & B)
- Panel 5 has two parts (Top & Bottom)
I am currently finalizing the installation process. Before I can start, though, I need to get the Staging Area tables built.
George
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George, It looks great!! it definitely has the Wierton and Ohio River look!! Congratulations!!
Mark Boyce posted:George, It looks great!! it definitely has the Wierton and Ohio River look!! Congratulations!!
It should! It was taken down on the river on a warm day in mid-October.
The river was so smooth, calm, and inviting it was all I could do not to jump in.
It's a beautiful place.
George
That is a great looking back drop scene. Also looks like careful planning went into each section and I bet it goes perfectly with your layout too. Great job!!
Sure wish I had that sort of planning ability! I have been struggling with an addition plan for my layout for about 3 years now...just can't seem to make up my mind what I want to do... 
G3750 posted:Mark Boyce posted:George, It looks great!! it definitely has the Wierton and Ohio River look!! Congratulations!!
It should!
The river was so smooth, calm, and inviting it was all I could do not to jump in.
It's a beautiful place.
George
It will make you feel like jumping in when you are running trans on a cold January day!! 
rtr12 posted:That is a great looking back drop scene. Also looks like careful planning went into each section and I bet it goes perfectly with your layout too. Great job!!
Sure wish I had that sort of planning ability! I have been struggling with an addition plan for my layout for about 3 years now...just can't seem to make up my mind what I want to do...
Thank you, I am happy with how the backdrop turned out as well.
As for planning, I've been thinking about this backdrop (and its predecessor) off and on for about 5 years.
This postcard (looking upstream / North) was the starting point for both the painted version (for Panhandle 1.0) and the current, more realistic photographic version of the backdrop.
I was fortunate; a cousin took us on his boat. We went upstream just north of the railroad bridge. The backdrop photographer took the shots from that point.
Before heading to the river for the shoot, I positioned the model bridge in the (more or less) proper location within the train room. I had the photographer look at the train room and we made detailed measurements. The photographer got the proper perspective and depth of field understanding from that mock-up. I think that was very important.
As to layout planning, let me give you some advice passed on to me by Neal Schorr (PRR Middle Division) way back when.
- Let the prototype be your guide. If you are modeling a particular railroad or portion or even a scene, study it. Take lots of photos because it gives you something to study. I've looked at photos 4, 5, 6 times and seen things that I had previously missed. As your understanding of the scene deepens, what's important to you may change.
- Determine what parts or features of the above are truly important to you. Certain industries or scenic features can dictate particular elements of the track plan. Eliminate the rest.
- Make an important feature(s) the center-piece of the layout. For me, the center-piece is the bridge. Weirton Steel is a second focus. And North Weirton is a third. Steubenville is number 4.
I would add the following steps to the above:
- Go and look at as many model railroads as possible. Take notes about what you like and what you don't.
- When you are thinking about your own layout, write yourself a set of notes about your decisions and why you did what you're doing.
- Use some sort of track planning software to test out your designs. I use RR-Track. I've made hundreds of variations of the PRR Panhandle 1.0 and 2.0 track plans over the years. It's a lot cheaper to make a plan and throw it away than it is to build and scrap a physical piece of a layout. BTW, I keep all my old track plan versions (give them version numbers); you never know when you might want to go back and see some feature.
- RESIST the impulse to fill every empty space with track.
I hope the above helps your planning process.
Best,
George
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Updated 2/21/2018:
We had a record high temperature of 78 degrees F here yesterday. I took advantage of the balmy weather to open the garage door and stain all the benchwork legs (18). These will support the perimeter of the layout.
I have also been giving some thought to the Steubenville, the most undifferentiated portion of the layout. In Panhandle 1.0, I envisioned some generic buildings and a coal mine. Steubenville actually did have a coal mine near the top of Market Street; it was said to pass under the Ohio River and emerge in Wellsburg, WV. 
However, after taking those photos of Steubenville from atop McKims Ridge, I am thinking about changing it up. See figure below.
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I will keep the mountain in the left rear corner of the layout, but I'm thinking about changing:
- The sidings. There was a large paper box(Federal?) factory along the river. I am going to flip the siding with the mainline and place the mainline inland. The new mainline is shown in RED.
- The coal mine. I'm thinking of eliminating the mine and its spurs and going for a more urban look. Steubenville has a lot of interesting architectural features. I'm thinking about including The Hub department store on 4th and Commercial streets. The photo below appears to have been taken near the intersection of Market & 7th Street. You can see the railroad crossing, as well as the Grand Theatre and The Hub on the left side of Market.<dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">
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- I want to get the intersections of Market & 4th, Market & 5th, and maybe even Market & 6th onto the layout in a more prototypical fashion. The building circled in red is The Hub.<dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">
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- With the mainline changed, I can create a seedier part of town in the southwest corner of the layout.
So while I work on benchwork today, I am giving some thought (and research effort) towards the appearance of Steubenville.
Georeg
Downtown Steubenville sounds good, George. Here is a neat looking painting I found. Maybe you have already seen it. It gives an idea of how you may have it look like in color.
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Google Map Street View doesn't look near as "glamorous" today.
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Thanks Mark.
Yes, I had seen the painting. The artist did a similar style painting of Weirton, too.
And yes, today downtown Steubenville is anything but glamorous. As the 1950s photo show, Steubenville was once Ohio's eastern shopping mecca.
I know we can't live in the past, but our railroads can!
George
Updated 2/21/2018:
I managed to take advantage of today's good weather and make some progress on the Staging Area's bench work.
This is the plan for benchwork tables.
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Originally, I planned to drill holes in sides and end ribs for both wiring and for bolting tables together. The plan was to clamp the adjacent sides (or ends) together and drill aligned holes through both pieces. I thought my Sears bench top drill press would be the perfect tool for this work. I was wrong. Whether it was me or the depth of holes or the depth of drill bit needed, it just didn't work. I couldn't adjust the thing to do the job. I ended up clamping pieces together an using a hand drill. I also decided that I would only drill holes for bolting tables together. Wiring will be carried by zip ties with screw holes.
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Stained wood. These are some of the "nice" legs that will go on the perimeter of the layout (facing visitors).
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Varnished wood - long side pieces.
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Some stained and many more varnished legs.
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Two sides that I already drilled. They are sitting on some finished (stained) legs.
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In the foreground is my set up for drilling holes. In the background is my useless (for this purpose) drill press.
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George
What an upside down world we live in!
GregM posted:What an upside down world we live in!
Are you telling me the photos are showing as upside down? Because they look OK to me.
George
G3750 posted:GregM posted:What an upside down world we live in!
Are you telling me the photos are showing as upside down? Because they look OK to me.
George
They are upside down when viewed on my iPad.
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The pics are all just fine on my PC. And thanks for the above post with added planning info. Unfortunately, I have been hijacked by my grandson and his first RC 'crawler' vehicle kit. Another subject I knew nothing about until he asked to come over so I could help him with his new kit! It's turned into quite a project and learning experience!
Ha ha! The photographs are upside down on my iPhone, but right side up on my PC. I never encountered that before.
GregM posted:G3750 posted:GregM posted:What an upside down world we live in!
Are you telling me the photos are showing as upside down? Because they look OK to me.
George
They are upside down when viewed on my iPad.
Probably easier to flip the iPad over than stand on your head.
I'm just sayin...
George
