Bob Delbridge posted:The next criteria is...who are they going to get to make it? If the person presently making them retires, they have to possibly hire/train another person, takes time/money.
There's always a work-a-round.
The boards today are made by PC board manufacturers. Ken doesn't assemble the board. Give them the files and any manufacturer can make these boards, assuming the parts are still available.
Pete
ogaugeguy posted:Alex M posted:J Daddy posted:Alex M posted:I generally don't speak out often BUT !!, this is so disheartening, simple solution ! place the ERR inventory in Lionel existing inventory problem solved. The product is still going to be produced on a regular basis for Atlas and 3rd rail locos, so why not continue to produce it for the consumer. I use it on a daily basis for my customers, how much more of a HIT is this hobby going to take. Cannot believe that such a quick decision has been made just to end ERR, this is a sad day !!!!!!!!!!!!
Alex
You know what they say Alex. When one door closes. Two more open. A solution will be found and in the long run it will only hurt Lionel.
Yes John i totally agree , this quick trigger decision by the top brass of Lionel, will 1000 percent only hurt them. Unfortunately it's going to hurt me pretty bad.
Not only hurt you, Alex and your JADA Enterprises, but also hurt the other 83 ERR authorized installers who are listed on ERR Company's website and might rely on the installations they've been doing to provide them with a source of possibly needed additional income.
And as an aside, if Lionel doesn't make accommodations to their decision, hopefully folks like GRG will continue innovating the the 3 rail hobby market and continue developing non-tmcc related and dependent products such as his led lighting kits which 3 rail hobbyists find useful and enhance the enjoyment of our trains.
Kenn,
Of course i know many many others are going to hurt from this, it's kind of destroying the hobby. John and i always work with each on a weekly basis, that's why i mentioned just him and I . My best guess between John and I we do at least 5 to 8 upgrades each a month ( this is just a ballpark figure) so it's killing us. I can only hope that the top brass at Lionel realizes what eliminating ERR is going to do to this hobby.
TO ALL !!!!! THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KEN AT ERR , HE'S A GREAT GUY WHO ABSOLUTELY DESERVES TO ENJOY HIS RETIREMENT. THANK YOU KEN FOR ALL YOU'VE DONE.
Thanks, Alex
Lionel has several folks on this board. There is no reason why someone from Lionel cannot step in and provide an official update with what's going on and what the plans are so that their customers can plan accordingly.
VidKidz posted:Lionel has several folks on this board. There is no reason why someone from Lionel cannot step in and provide an official update with what's going on and what the plans are so that their customers can plan accordingly.
Maybe they have nothing to update? It's only been 3 days since the news was announced. Most likely yesterday was a recovery day as well as one to even digest the 7 or 8 pages of this thread if they even looked. Even if they have discussed it further I doubt they had time to even formulate a plan. I suspect there is no new news so there is nothing to update.
Bob Delbridge posted:Why does it matter if TMCC is 25 years old or 2 years old? Aren't the relevant criteria whether it serves a useful role in the hobby and whether it's profitable for Lionel (or whoever) to offer it?
Actually the relevant criteria is whether or not the parts are still being produced. If there's a component on the board that is no longer made then it's going to be tough getting it reproduced or finding a substitute. Everyone from our toy train companies to the U.S. military runs into the same issue. I've seen ships "borrow" parts from the ship berthed next to them so they can get underway because the lead time for getting a circuit board made can be in years and they can't wait that long.
The next criteria is...who are they going to get to make it? If the person presently making them retires, they have to possibly hire/train another person, takes time/money.
I can't find a battery for my 1965 Pentax, do I stop taking photos or do I buy a newer camera and continue to enjoy my hobby, the choice is ours.
There's always a work-a-round.
Yes, parts obsolescence is always an issue in electronics. But, as you said, there are work-arounds. As it is, Lionel is going to continue to make TMCC boards for Atlas and 3rd Rail. (And this won't happen by itself--somebody is going to be managing it.)
VidKidz posted:Lionel has several folks on this board. There is no reason why someone from Lionel cannot step in and provide an official update with what's going on and what the plans are so that their customers can plan accordingly.
Well...
As has been pointed out about a half a dozens times now in this thread and a few others, the ultimate decision-makers on this issue are not necessarily the same Lionel folks who frequent the board.
As evidenced by this thread people are very passionate about this topic and many have indicated they have written/are planning to write to Lionel expressing their opinions and asking for additional information on future plans. Presumably the word is getting back to them.
This news is a few days old. Maybe we can give them more than a few days to share their plans?
Switching to 2 rail, I hadn't come across the news.
But at York, I had a very nice little used 3rd Rail N&W 4-8-2 "Water Buffalo" for sale. Pre TMCC.
I had a few potential buyers. The first question was always does it have TMCC. I had a low price reflecting that it still had the QSI, and thinking that anyone that wanted to upgrade could do it.
Had it been me and expecting to convert, I would have passed on it. The pressure of coming up with an upgrade so quickly would have killed the purchase for me.
I think the numbers might justify the decision. However, there is a greater reason to keep the ERR products available. It doesn't show up in the profit numbers but does reside in the mind set of potential Lionel buyers. I also hate to see Gunrunner John's products be affected. Buyers of his products have only scratched the surface of their usefulness.
Obviously the decision was not made by someone with the competence to understand all the implications for Lionel.
I refrain from more detailed comment about what I think of this latest piece of corporate conduct except to say that I have written to Lionel saying, among other points, that I think cutting out aftermarket TMCC repair/upgrade businesses is a decision I can’t understand or live with. GRJ and AlexM contribute a lot more to this hobby, let alone this Forum, than Lionel appear to recognize; they as much as anyone else deserve better than this.
BTW, TMCC upgrades are not a big thing for me but all the other uses to which ERR components have been for years. Even so, I am looking at a very nice brass 3rd Rail Pennsy T1 that I never got around to converting from QSI to TMCC and Lionel’s decision has probably wiped out much of its resale value. So much for thanking the likes of you and me for Lionel’s great 2017
Well, add me to the list enthusiasts who voiced their concern over this. I just sent Lionel an email expressing my extreme displeasure over this situation.
Nick
Keith L posted:...... As it is, Lionel is going to continue to make TMCC boards for Atlas and 3rd Rail. (And this won't happen by itself--somebody is going to be managing it.)
Yes, someone's going to keep making the TMCC boards for Lionel. TMCC/ERR cruise/RailSounds is not going away. The boards will continue to be produced, so there's no need to talk about finding someone else to make them. But why the decision to stop selling them to individuals?
ncdave posted:Just thought I would add my two cents to this discussion.
While I am concerned about the ability to get repairs done to the TMCC and Legacy engines in my small roster it occurred to me that we as Lionel customers, both new and used, are investing in a 20 year old technology. We are counting on Lionel to support that technology in the future no matter the cost or availability of the parts to repair that technology. No manufacture does that in today’s world. New technologies are developed and applied and old ones, no matter how successful, are discarded. That, unfortunately, is the world we live in.
I suspect that Lionel was faced with the difficult choice here because of manufacturing costs. The cost of parts and the difficulty of getting these boards built in a quantity to justify a run by the manufacturer has become prohibitive. So I’m guessing that the boards on hand or in the pipe line are being used to satisfy the contracts they have with Atlas and Third Rail. And after they are used up the announcement will come that Legacy will be available to them. That leaves out the DIY hobbyist for now.
We can complain to Lionel but I’m afraid the bottom line and the use of old technology has ended the run of ERR.
Again just my two cents.
Dave
P. S. DCS is not immune to this either. It’s aging too.
That is true, but you also have to keep in mind the kind of market we live in with these trains. We are running on three rail AC and continue to, despite the fact that trains now are DC can motors, because they recognize there is a huge installed base out there running older trains in conventional mode, and they want to merge old and new as an example. The other related factor is that a lot of people don't just run the newest and greatest items, this isn't the same as cell phones, the cost of the product means that people can't easily up and throw away 'old technology' and buy new, despite what the marketing people would want. Bit different than with tv sets where it literally doesn't pay to fix them, they last a long time then by then you want new features.
The problem here is that Lionel wants to maintain TMCC (or seems to want to) as proprietary technology, maintaining total control over it, while now basically telling consumers if you want to upgrade or replace a broken board, you are out of luck. If they truly don't want to produce this any more, if for example they are going to offer legacy boards to Atlas and Third rail (and possibly consumer kits), keep that as proprietary and allow third party firms the ability to build TMCC based components for the consumer. Again, that may seem to work against their goals, but this is a part of the market that isn't going to buy more legacy or lionchief + engines if they can't upgrade to TMCC, those people will buy or not whether TMCC is around or not. The parallel I will use is the auto industry, for a certain period of time some parts are dealer only, you can't get third market parts, but with older cars you can get pretty much anything in the third market, the manufacturer doesn't need to keep those parts on hand or their suppliers make them, and another company makes money out of it.
It will be interesting to see what Lionel has plans, I hope that they do have plans other than basically making TMCC disappear, whether it is third party firms making boards and kits, or offering users a legacy upgrade path similar to what ERR did......but that will come out in the end. Declaring technology as 'dead' at times does work, but that is in a market where old technology truly dies, like old cell phones or computers and the like.
I'm an old school conventional operator but I have a few locomotives that I've been on the fence with to upgrade to TMCC so this is a blessing in disguise. I do, however, feel bad for those who do this as a business. Perhaps things will work out in the end.
Sounds like to could morph into some "Black Market" sales to me.......Lol
!
Their decision only reinforces and speeds up my transition to rc control. It's basically the same expense.
1965 Pentax battery...
What battery # is it...just curious.
cjack posted:1965 Pentax battery...
What battery # is it...just curious.
E387S, the one with the plastic ring around the battery. I think I found one on Ebay once, but the shipping was HIGH!
I bought it from a fellow train buddy of mine, he bought the camera while stationed in Guam in 1965. Took good photos, uses threaded lenses.
breezinup posted:Keith L posted:...... As it is, Lionel is going to continue to make TMCC boards for Atlas and 3rd Rail. (And this won't happen by itself--somebody is going to be managing it.)
Yes, someone's going to keep making the TMCC boards for Lionel. TMCC/ERR cruise/RailSounds is not going away. The boards will continue to be produced, so there's no need to talk about finding someone else to make them. But why the decision to stop selling them to individuals?
I been saying that in my post. Thanks for clarifying it again. Seems this part is ignored. The parts and boards are there and available. They are still going to be assembled, but sold only to Atlas and 3rd Rail, why cut the individual hobbyist out and add more to the profit?
Just to throw some fuel on the fire, if I was supporting two technologies, TMCC and Legacy, and was looking to reduce costs and increase profits, I would eliminate the TMCC/ERR products and begin selling Legacy products to the public.by eliminating the requirement to trade-in a non-functioning Legacy board to get a new board.
Jan
I will miss the ability to have cruise installed on older TMCC non Odyssey/Legacy engines. Conventional was ok but after going cruise I was hooked. I now have no reason to buy older locos for upgrades.
If you happen to have Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram accounts also use those to let Lionel how you feel about their ERR decision by posting your concern and dissatisfaction there. Here are the links:
https://twitter.com/Lionel_Trains
https://www.instagram.com/lionel_trains/
https://www.facebook.com/LionelModelTrains
And in addition to emailing Howard Hitchcock and Chris Elrod , also send a copy of that email to:
Hey Everyone, Is it possible to upgrade a Lionel Postwar F3 with DCS Protosound 3.0 ?? The question sounds crazy to me but I've heard some doozies in my lifetime.
Jan posted:Just to throw some fuel on the fire, if I was supporting two technologies, TMCC and Legacy, and was looking to reduce costs and increase profits, I would eliminate the TMCC/ERR products and begin selling Legacy products to the public.by eliminating the requirement to trade-in a non-functioning Legacy board to get a new board.
Jan
Lionel made that possible a few weeks ago. Actually you have been able to buy first generation modular Legacy boards for quite a few years now. A friend has converted dozens of engines of all types including 3rd Rail and MTH to Legacy.
Only recently has Lionel offered a few Legacy Railsounds boards for sale without exchange.
To do this you will need a some experience with electronics. There are no manuals. You will need tools to make your own harnesses. No screws terminals. Your only guide is being able to read the terminal markings printed in 2 point type on the PC boards.
The only way this will work is if Lionel creates user friendly boards and instructions so you don't need to be a PhD EE to install it.
Pete
marker posted:Switching to 2 rail, I hadn't come across the news.
But at York, I had a very nice little used 3rd Rail N&W 4-8-2 "Water Buffalo" for sale. Pre TMCC.
I had a few potential buyers. The first question was always does it have TMCC. I had a low price reflecting that it still had the QSI, and thinking that anyone that wanted to upgrade could do it.
Had it been me and expecting to convert, I would have passed on it. The pressure of coming up with an upgrade so quickly would have killed the purchase for me.
I think the numbers might justify the decision. However, there is a greater reason to keep the ERR products available. It doesn't show up in the profit numbers but does reside in the mind set of potential Lionel buyers. I also hate to see Gunrunner John's products be affected. Buyers of his products have only scratched the surface of their usefulness.
Obviously the decision was not made by someone with the competence to understand all the implications for Lionel.
You wouldn't by chance still have that Water Buffalo for sale would you?
marshelangelo posted:Hey Everyone, Is it possible to upgrade a Lionel Postwar F3 with DCS Protosound 3.0 ?? The question sounds crazy to me but I've heard some doozies in my lifetime.
Only if you replace the Pullmors with can motors. Best if you buy a Williams repro and swap shells.
Pete
I think the title of this thread pretty well sums it up. " THE DEATH OF THE TMCC UPGRADE" After reading the many posts on this thread I walked into my train room and immediately got the same feeling I get when walking into a funeral home. All I could do was look at the various locomotives that I had intended to upgrade over the next several years. I had no desire to run my trains. Just look and wonder what might have been.
Tom
Dan Fender posted:...I did look at the BlueRail Trains website and their system looks interesting. At this time, it isn't capable of controlling AC motored engines (unless they or someone else is working on some sort of inverter circuit). It also would also render any MTH PS1 engines it is installed into becoming silent -unless someone has or is working to figure out if there is a surgical work around on those old MTH boards that allows one to keep audio functionality while bypassing the DCRU circuitry.
A simple approach to the latter would seemingly be to disconnect the motor from the DCRU and connect it to the BlueRail unit. But that assumes the lack of a motor load on the DCRU wouldn't cause problems with the rest of the PS1 circuitry, which I suspect it would.
The old Lionel "Pullmor" motors aren't AC motors. They're universal motors and will run on DC (also more quietly). The magnetic field is generated by running the track voltage through a field coil, the phase (polarity) of which is changed when the reverse unit is triggered. If you isolate the motor armature from the chassis, you can feed DC into it through a rectifier (or control board). The field coil can be fed pure DC through a bridge rectifier since the polarity won't be changing (the board reverses the armature). I haven't done that for years, so I don't recall how hot the field got if at all and I can't remember the current draw of the motors.
And you wonder why the hobby is shrinking.
Flyer guys used to run on DC quite a bit; there are articles out there about how to do it. I intend to look into them.
Tom Densel posted:I think the title of this thread pretty well sums it up. " THE DEATH OF THE TMCC UPGRADE" After reading the many posts on this thread I walked into my train room and immediately got the same feeling I get when walking into a funeral home. All I could do was look at the various locomotives that I had intended to upgrade over the next several years. I had no desire to run my trains. Just look and wonder what might have been.
Tom
Hi Tom
Perfectly stated !
I upgrade engines for customers on a weekly basis , so I’ve never had the chance to upgrade my own engines. I guess I waited to long, so the 4 that I wanted to upgrade fall into the title of this thread ( The Death of the TMCC upgrade ) what a shame ! So many of my customers are in the same boat, a bunch of engines now go to the Funeral home. So damaging to this hobby.
Alex
Re: "The death of TMCC".
I guess in a psychological sense I am better positioned than most since I have aged out and crippled out anyway. My locomotives are mostly steam and early diesel up through the early 1950s. Upon this latest TMCC news the units now become much like my collection of Southern, N&W and Clinchfield books....... shelf queens! Of course my two sons who say they want the trains may have a very different view
.
For the sake of the Hobby i hope a product source solution emerges for Alex, Gunrunner John and others who upgrade and convert engines for the herd.
Has anyone contacted Atlas or better yet Scott at third rail and ask them what does this hold for the future of their products. In other words maybe they know a little bit more because it will be necessary for them to know what the future holds for their products. I mean I won't buy a third rail or Atlas local knowing that if something goes wrong it can't be repaired.
Well, guys, there is also MTH PS 3.0, and I know as we have guys in our club that are Lionel Purists this won set well. This is another option even for 3rd rail, Atlas, and any other manufacturers.
It's not like all trains will stop, just because Lionel has thrown a Monkey Wrench into the mix....!.................Just Sayin
There is another manufacturer that made waves years ago. He may have not made the same business decision. A public relations nightmare? One knows Baseball never recovered from the strike. I think the " company" is under estimating their situation. Good Luck to them if this policy is not reversed. Next year- best year in 10 years- may be the worst.
Like john Lennon said, it's faster going down then going up.
After reading nine pages of comments about the death of the TMCC upgrades I thought I would try to list the facts, as I understand them, and come up with some questions for Lionel.
1. Lionel stopped supplying ERR Company with boards.
2. There is/was a limited supply of boards on hand at ERR.
3. The gentleman that runs ERR is retirering. Congratulations!
4. Profit, although small, was made during the last year.
5. Whats left of the ERR company will move to NC.
6. Lionel will continue to supply Atlas and 3rd Rail with ERR/TMCC boards.
So based on those facts we can conclude that Lionel must have enough ERR/TMCC upgrade boards and parts on hand or in the pipeline to supply Atlas and 3rd Rail to meet their contact obligations. But not enough to supply ERR for sale to the O gauge community.
So that begs the following questions. In no particular order.
1. Will Lionel support TMCC with parts and boards in the future?
2. Will there be a Legacy, LionChief+, Bluetooth upgrade path in the future if TMCC is phased out?
3. Is TMCC being phased out? Or just the upgrade path?
4. Did You, Lionel, realize how this would affect your installed base of customers who purchased your product both new and used over the last 20 years?
5. Is there the possibility of supplying independent repair shops with ERR boards so that they can carry out repairs and upgrades?
6. Is the problem with the supplier of the ERR boards? Costs? Parts? Numbers?
I think nine pages of comments on this subject alone should get Lionels attention and get them to answer these questions and more here on the OGR Fourm. Let’s hope they do so soon!
Dave
Matt Makens posted:You miss the point, there are no hard numbers to go on so it’s all speculation but let’s say the office costs 3k a month, employees John and Ken another 6k each so you’ve got 15k a month that’s 180k a year. Let’s add 10% for other costs that’s 2k and 30% for inventory that’s 54k 254k a year now they made 5k profit so let’s make it an even 260k in revenue. So let’s say atlas and 3rd Rail account for 30% each of the sales and consumers account for 40%. Lionel Has 60% of that business locked up so your left with 40% of 260k That’s 104k. Now you’re gonna have to buy boards from Lionel, you could expect to pay 50% of retail and so you have $52,000 in cost just for inventory, that leaves you the other $52,000 a year to pay rent, phone, internet, insurance, office supplies, electricity, and of course wages. So you tell me, where’s the money at?
the word you used was speculation...that has no bearing in the current position. Lionel sells parts for repair. Lionel is already renting space.
They do sell parts? Why? Because. They would miff people and their sales would plummet.So, stock err boards or get another option...
E-UNIT-79 posted:Has anyone contacted Atlas or better yet Scott at third rail and ask them what does this hold for the future of their products. In other words maybe they know a little bit more because it will be necessary for them to know what the future holds for their products. I mean I won't buy a third rail or Atlas local knowing that if something goes wrong it can't be repaired.
That whole thing about the second shoe dropping.... Might be interesting here.
I'm NOT suggesting I know such will take place (I do not!), but I wouldn't be surprised if that is a follow up to this at some point down the line. At the time of Friday's announcement it was not the case, but who knows.
If the parts obsolescence thing does end up killing the feasibility of producing boards entirely at some point, I don't see Lionel re-designing the board just to supply to third parties.
Anything they may or may not know I would consider between them and Lionel at this point (may even be in their contract - none of us know, aside from one or 2 who may work for one of those companies directly, might). IF there is a risk down the road, I could see them wanting time to figure out what to do before a panic ensues the way it has here for the upgrades.
Well, here is just another reason why three rail O scale will continue to shrink. I biggest reason I bailed on three almost four years ago were due to issues with both major control systems:
I feel sorry for you modelers / operators who have lost yet another supplier to try to standardize on a control system, and keep what you have already purchased running in the event of an electronic failure. It sucks. Hopefully somebody can step in and fill the void. If not, there is always HO 
In the meantime, us users of DCC continue to thrive. Multiple suppliers of excellent sound decoders, that can be shoved into anything we desire to put it into. I have a failed board in one of my Broadway Limited UP TTT 6/7 2-10-2 locomotives. I'm not stuck with the BLI DCC board for a replacement, I can get a replacement from ESU, Soundtrax, or TCS, which have some great products. It will fit just fine, and the wiring is pretty easy to sort out. Not sure yet which way I am going to go, but the first step is to take it apart and try to figure out why it failed in the first place. Once I fix the reason for the failure, assuming it was not board failure (which happens), I'll decide on which way to go. At least I have options.
I'm still running non-sound locomotives that I dumped non-sound decoders into 22 years ago. They still run great, and never had a failure. Same story there, if they ever give up the ghost, plenty of options available, and I can upgrade them to sound if I so desire. And I can pick them up and run them on any other DCC controlled railroad. Rest assured, the control system on the foreign railroad will be able to find it.
Is DCC the best solution? For me, yes, but there are other exciting prospects on the horizon that will eventually render DCC obsolete. And when those do eventually take hold (dead rail anybody?), hopefully a control system standard will be developed by the NMRA for its replacement.
Regards,
GNNPNUT
gnnpnut posted:Well, here is just another reason why three rail O scale will continue to shrink. I biggest reason I bailed on three almost four years ago were due to issues with both major control systems:
- Lionel TMCC / Legacy, and all of the associated upgrade options over the years, TAS, ERR, and Digital Dynamics. The signal transmission method is flawed, and no amount of ground plane, the "healing hand of health", and replacement boards will ever make it better.
- MTH DCS. I don't even know where to start with all of the issues I've encountered with this system over the 11 plus years that it was my displeasure to be associated with it.
I feel sorry for you modelers / operators who have lost yet another supplier to try to standardize on a control system, and keep what you have already purchased running in the event of an electronic failure. It sucks. Hopefully somebody can step in and fill the void. If not, there is always HO
In the meantime, us users of DCC continue to thrive. Multiple suppliers of excellent sound decoders, that can be shoved into anything we desire to put it into. I have a failed board in one of my Broadway Limited UP TTT 6/7 2-10-2 locomotives. I'm not stuck with the BLI DCC board for a replacement, I can get a replacement from ESU, Soundtrax, or TCS, which have some great products. It will fit just fine, and the wiring is pretty easy to sort out. Not sure yet which way I am going to go, but the first step is to take it apart and try to figure out why it failed in the first place. Once I fix the reason for the failure, assuming it was not board failure (which happens), I'll decide on which way to go. At least I have options.
I'm still running non-sound locomotives that I dumped non-sound decoders into 22 years ago. They still run great, and never had a failure. Same story there, if they ever give up the ghost, plenty of options available, and I can upgrade them to sound if I so desire. And I can pick them up and run them on any other DCC controlled railroad. Rest assured, the control system on the foreign railroad will be able to find it.
Is DCC the best solution? For me, yes, but there are other exciting prospects on the horizon that will eventually render DCC obsolete. And when those do eventually take hold (dead rail anybody?), hopefully a control system standard will be developed by the NMRA for its replacement.
Regards,I assume your talking about ho?
i assume you are taking about ho? Lol, the transients produced at a amp and 18 v or more....a Little tough to compare board reliability...to dc...nada current. A much hasher environment on the o side.
ogaugeguy posted:If you happen to have Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram accounts also use those to let Lionel how you feel about their ERR decision by posting your concern and dissatisfaction there. Here are the links:
https://twitter.com/Lionel_Trains
https://www.instagram.com/lionel_trains/
https://www.facebook.com/LionelModelTrains
And in addition to emailing Howard Hitchcock and Chris Elrod , also send a copy of that email to:
time to start posting on my massive YouTube site...
shawn posted:gnnpnut posted:Well, here is just another reason why three rail O scale will continue to shrink. I biggest reason I bailed on three almost four years ago were due to issues with both major control systems:
- Lionel TMCC / Legacy, and all of the associated upgrade options over the years, TAS, ERR, and Digital Dynamics. The signal transmission method is flawed, and no amount of ground plane, the "healing hand of health", and replacement boards will ever make it better.
- MTH DCS. I don't even know where to start with all of the issues I've encountered with this system over the 11 plus years that it was my displeasure to be associated with it.
I feel sorry for you modelers / operators who have lost yet another supplier to try to standardize on a control system, and keep what you have already purchased running in the event of an electronic failure. It sucks. Hopefully somebody can step in and fill the void. If not, there is always HO
In the meantime, us users of DCC continue to thrive. Multiple suppliers of excellent sound decoders, that can be shoved into anything we desire to put it into. I have a failed board in one of my Broadway Limited UP TTT 6/7 2-10-2 locomotives. I'm not stuck with the BLI DCC board for a replacement, I can get a replacement from ESU, Soundtrax, or TCS, which have some great products. It will fit just fine, and the wiring is pretty easy to sort out. Not sure yet which way I am going to go, but the first step is to take it apart and try to figure out why it failed in the first place. Once I fix the reason for the failure, assuming it was not board failure (which happens), I'll decide on which way to go. At least I have options.
I'm still running non-sound locomotives that I dumped non-sound decoders into 22 years ago. They still run great, and never had a failure. Same story there, if they ever give up the ghost, plenty of options available, and I can upgrade them to sound if I so desire. And I can pick them up and run them on any other DCC controlled railroad. Rest assured, the control system on the foreign railroad will be able to find it.
Is DCC the best solution? For me, yes, but there are other exciting prospects on the horizon that will eventually render DCC obsolete. And when those do eventually take hold (dead rail anybody?), hopefully a control system standard will be developed by the NMRA for its replacement.
Regards,I assume your talking about ho?
i assume you are taking about ho? Lol, the transients produced at a amp and 18 v or more....a Lille tough to compare board reliability...to dc...nada current
Funny how two rail O scalers, and G scalers manage to survive with DCC. NCE had a four amp board available for about 20 years now, and so did Digitrax. Before O scale sound boards became available, people just piggybacked an HO Soundtrax board with an NCE or Digitrax board, and they had a great running combination.
TMCC / Legacy / DCS boards being engineered for the higher voltage and current required because of lack of options is simply a myth perpetrated by one of the control system manufacturers. It had everything to do with making the control system proprietary.
I had the pleasure about one year ago to operate on Jim Eudaly's wonderful C&O O scale railroad, which is using NCE's DCC system, complete with radio thottles, and every one of his steam locomotives (and diesels) is equipped with DCC sound. Wonder how he manages to have reliability with DCC. Not a Purple or Orange electronics item anywhere on that railroad. It is also a huge railroad. Jim is a master modeler, and scratchbuilt or heavily modified many of his locomotives.
And yes, in my case, I am talking about HO.
GNNPNUT
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