Ten Steam Locomotives you would save

Re: "fictional" locomotives - how can one save....what never existed in the first place?

I appreciate the OPs enthusiasm and spirit.  I just don't (respectfully) see where he is coming from.

Peace regardless.......

One of every type of American steam. Examples:

1. Dewitt Clinton
2. 19th Century American 4-4-0
3. Shay
4. Heisler
5. Climax
6. 20th Century Consolidation
7. USRA Pacific
8. USRA Mikado
9. Modern Mallet (or Articulated)
10. Modern Northern

All other additions are simply gravy. The more the better.

Andrew Boyd posted:

Berkshire President posted:

Re: "fictional" locomotives - how can one save....what never existed in the first place?

I appreciate the OPs enthusiasm and spirit.  I just don't (respectfully) see where he is coming from.

Peace regardless.......

You see, I had through about the PRR's locomotive fleet woes in the steam era. Which I felt a 4-8-4 class would help remedy.

Altoona will be relieved.......

Andrew Boyd posted:

Berkshire President posted:

Re: "fictional" locomotives - how can one save....what never existed in the first place?

I appreciate the OPs enthusiasm and spirit.  I just don't (respectfully) see where he is coming from.

Peace regardless.......

You see, I had through about the PRR's locomotive fleet woes in the steam era. Which I felt a 4-8-4 class would help remedy.

Sorry, but the diesel electric locomotive remedied the motive power "woes" of the PRR, as well as every other railroad on the North American Continent, as soon as WWII was over and the War Production Board limitations on the Electro-Motive Division of General Motors Corporation, were lifted.

Andrew Boyd posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

Maybe we should preserve the proposed GE nuclear locomotive while we're at it...

Rusty

Except these fictional locomotives are based on realistic ideas, and could have hypothetically worked as real steam engines.

GE's atomic locomotive was a very realistic idea back in the late 50's/early 60's when nuclear power was our friend.  GE even had a scale concept model built. 

Certainly more realistic than any flight of fancy.

It even garnered a mention in my 7th grade science book back when the Earth was cooling...

Rusty

A NYC Hudson of course, an unstreamlined J3a.

A Baltimore and Ohio EM-1

The Baltimore and Ohio 2004, "Old Maude", the other B&O articulated that should have been saved.

And of course, the 1309. After all, she does have a new cab!

Ed

1. NYC 4-6-4
2. PRR 4-6-2
3. B&O 4-6-2 (President)
4. MILW 4-6-4 (Hiawatha)
5. SOU 4-6-2
6. T&P 2-10-4
7. SP 4-8-4
8. UP 4-8-8-4
9. N&W 2-6-6-4
10. ATSF 2-10-4

These were all significant engines that performed well in service.  Really, 10 is not enough.  I would have easily been able to do 20.

Erie Triplex 2-8-8-8-2

NYC Hudson

Erie Berkshire

USRA Light Mikado

USRA Heavy Mikado

OK, here are some US steam engines that DID exist that should have been saved.

The original Union Pacific 119 and Jupiter

Here are some more real steam engines that should have been saved.

1. The original N&W Big Three: J class 604, A class 1212, and Y6b 2174, all at Roanoke, VA
   1. As for 611 and 1218, they'd keep doing excursions, and maybe be based out of Altoona.
2. Also have N&W 2174, perhaps on display at Cincy if there's not enough room at Roanoke.
3. PRR T1 5533: At the RRM of PA
4. PRR K4 5399, at Lima, OH where it got its unique rebuild
5. NYC Niagra 6015. Perhaps at Buffalo
6. N&W 382, 396, and 429, since I'd also save the Abingdon Branch as a tourist line
7. SP 4-8-2 4354
8. GTW 5629
9. CB&Q 5632
10. MoPac 4-8-2 5321 at Museum of Transport St. Louis
11. C&NW 4-8-4 3013 at Green Bay
12. Wabash 4-6-4 702 at Lafayette
13. IC 4-8-2 2613 at KRM

Reading T1s  2100, 2101, 2102 and 2124.

Actually all are preserved (to an extent) and 2100 and 2102 are being returned to service.

I'd love to see a Pennsy K4 or a New York Central Hudson.

I think Steam town has a K4

Francine posted:

 

I think Steam town has a K4

Nope. Steam Town actually never really "had a K4", the K4s #1361 was only there for rebuild, which turned in to a total disaster and money pit. The #1361 is now back in the city of Altoona, in pieces, at the Railroader's Museum. The only other PRR K4s in existence is #3750, on display at the Pennsylvania State Railroad Museum (or whatever the legal/official name is), located across the road from the Strasburg Rail Road.

Andrew Boyd posted:

Here are some more real steam engines that should have been saved.

When you say something like that, do you ever think to yourself: "Now, who would have paid for this?  For all these years?"

As hobbyists or rail fans, we often forget that real railroading is a BUSINESS. They don't just make 1:1 scale models.

Berkshire President posted:

Andrew Boyd posted:

Here are some more real steam engines that should have been saved.

When you say something like that, do you ever think to yourself: "Now, who would have paid for this?  For all these years?"

As hobbyists or rail fans, we often forget that real railroading is a BUSINESS. They don't just make 1:1 scale models.

People complained when I imagined made up locomotives to preserve. At least I'm using real ones now.

Andrew Boyd posted:

Berkshire President posted:

Andrew Boyd posted:

Here are some more real steam engines that should have been saved.

When you say something like that, do you ever think to yourself: "Now, who would have paid for this?  For all these years?"

As hobbyists or rail fans, we often forget that real railroading is a BUSINESS. They don't just make 1:1 scale models.

People complained when I imagined made up locomotives to preserve. At least I'm using real ones now.

Except,,,,,,,,,it is all water over the dam now, so let it go and get over it. Why not concentrate on those steam locomotives that HAVE been saved/preserved, and maybe even volunteer your time working on THEM?

Hot Water posted:

Andrew Boyd posted:

Berkshire President posted:

Andrew Boyd posted:

Here are some more real steam engines that should have been saved.

When you say something like that, do you ever think to yourself: "Now, who would have paid for this?  For all these years?"

As hobbyists or rail fans, we often forget that real railroading is a BUSINESS. They don't just make 1:1 scale models.

People complained when I imagined made up locomotives to preserve. At least I'm using real ones now.

Except,,,,,,,,,it is all water over the dam now, so let it go and get over it. Why not concentrate on those steam locomotives that HAVE been saved/preserved, and maybe even volunteer your time working on THEM?

One reason I dream about stuff like that is because I enjoy dreaming of alternate scenarios. Besides, this thread is ABOUT people listing steam engines they would preserve if that person had the chance.

In the case of G T W 5629 Jensen cannot be judged to harshly. He was a bread salesman - a working guy - and MARTA refused him permission to move the engine and scrapped it on place. He was partially paralyzed from a painful spinal injury when he died virtually penniless in 1991. At the cost of every penny he had he preserved three engines - of which only one survived. He was unjustly deprived of much money owed him when operating fan trips and double-crossed by several host railroads that reneged on contractual ageeements, and the vermin who refused to move the engine 150 yards on technicalities. May he rest in peace without defamation.

The Railroad Museum of Long Island (RMLI) is currently raising money to restore the LIRR #39 G5 locomotive. It is at Strasburg, PA and as donations continue to come in the restoration will proceed. Check out the RMLI website for info and to make a donation.

Tommy posted:

In the case of G T W 5629 Jensen cannot be judged to harshly. He was a bread salesman - a working guy - and MARTA refused him permission to move the engine and scrapped it on place. He was partially paralyzed from a painful spinal injury when he died virtually penniless in 1991. At the cost of every penny he had he preserved three engines - of which only one survived. He was unjustly deprived of much money owed him when operating fan trips and double-crossed by several host railroads that reneged on contractual ageeements, and the vermin who refused to move the engine 150 yards on technicalities. May he rest in peace without defamation.

GTW 5629 was tied up in a legal quagmire after Jensen's death, so no preservation group would get involved.  IRM did consider getting in, but decided the case would have dragged on and been way to costly to try to save it.

As far as CB&Q 4963 (Jensen's 3rd loco) it took IRM a lot of negotiations to eventually free her from the scrap yard.  Many of the former Northwestern Steel & Wire (ex-GTW) 0-8-0's helped pay for 4963's liberation.

Rusty

CNR 6218.

I'd really like to see the CNJ 774 resurrected (among most of the PRR and NYC candidates above). Would be great if one of those PRR G-5's would ever get done! And finish the K4 for goodness sake - with a new boiler, not a patch job only good for 180 PSI and 45MPH top speed!!

There are lots of good things that should have been saved.  But two stand out in my mind that should be new-builds.

A- DSP&P narrow gauge 2-6-6 Mason Bogie 'BRECKENRIDGE".  What a gorgeous locomotive as built and a rare variety.  It should be based in Colorado.  (Somebody have a good photo?)

B- NYC J3a 4-6-4 5455   This could have variations in sheet metal from time to time but the same base locomotive could appear in four different versions:   1-Dreyfuss Hudson as delivered for the 1938 Twentieth Century Limited; 2- COMMODORE VANDERBILT bathtub shroud; 3- EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS; 4-destreamlined version - post war.  A locomotive with the NYC clearance diagram should be able to enter Chicago Union Station from the east TODAY.  Even NKP 765 can't do that, nor the Daylight on its Michigan visit.  18 degree 30 seconds max curvature is not bad (not as good at the 765's 20 degrees but better than the N&W J 611's 16 degree).  Bridge loadings should be good.  Go just about anywhere and there was never anything as dramatic as the Dreyfuss streamlining.  

Copy the TORNADO new-build 4-6-2 project in the UK............

The 2-6-6 Mason Bogie Breckinridge...

I would like to see the NYC NiagaraS-1b and S-2 (poppet vale version) reproduced in " the flesh"  as Al  Staufer used to say.

As popular as the Lionel S2 Turbine was, I am surprised that only a couple members mentioned it.  Of course I am speaking of the real deal, not the model.

Dan Padova posted:

As popular as the Lionel S2 Turbine was, I am surprised that only a couple members mentioned it.  Of course I am speaking of the real deal, not the model.

Maybe because it was a TOTAL FAILURE!

1)Interstate 2-8-8-2

2)Virginian 2-6-6-6 Blue Ridge (Allegheny)

3)Virginian 4-4-0

4)N&W Z1B

5)N&W Class K

6)N&W Jawn Henry

7)N&W Shay

8)Virginian EL2B (sorry it's electric)

9)C&O turbine

10)Clinchfield Challenger

Scott Smith

Hot Water posted:

Dan Padova posted:

As popular as the Lionel S2 Turbine was, I am surprised that only a couple members mentioned it.  Of course I am speaking of the real deal, not the model.

Maybe because it was a TOTAL FAILURE!

While it was not what the Pennsy was hoping for, I don't think "total failure" is a fair assessment.  From what I have read, it performed well at high speed, but wasn't efficient at slower speeds.  

Dan Padova posted:

Hot Water posted:

Dan Padova posted:

As popular as the Lionel S2 Turbine was, I am surprised that only a couple members mentioned it.  Of course I am speaking of the real deal, not the model.

Maybe because it was a TOTAL FAILURE!

While it was not what the Pennsy was hoping for, I don't think "total failure" is a fair assessment.  From what I have read, it performed well at high speed, but wasn't efficient at slower speeds.  

Efficiency had NOTHING to do with it. Every time they "ran it", it broke SOOOOOOO many staybolts in the firebox, that it would then spend many days in shop so the Boilermakers could replace all the broken staybolts. The problem with a direct turbine drive on a steam locomotive was, every time the throttle was opened for a start, it was just like removing a huge cork from the boiler, and the boiler pressure would quickly drop 50 to 100 psi. With the turbine, there is no back pressure like there is on a piston driven locomotive. The C&O had the same problems with their turbines, but the PRR S2 was by far the worse.

1. A Reading Comoany N-1 2-8-8-2 #1315 at RR Muesum of PA

2. Reading Company 2-10-2 #3001 at Reading and Northern for steam excursions 

3. A CNJ 4-6-4T #230 at Black River and Western in Ringoes NJ 

4. A Reading Pacific (without Crusader streamlining) on display at the Phillidelhia Terminal.

5. A Pere Marquette 2-8-0 #274 at Steam Railroad Institude with 1225.

6. A CNJ/RDG 4-6-0 Camelback at either the RDG Heritage Muesum in Hamburg PA or Whippnay Railroad museum in Whippany NJ.

7. A CNJ 2-8-2 USRA Milkado for steam excursions if they returned to NJT.

8. A RDG 2-6-0T Suburban Tank for The RDG Heirtage Muesum in Hamburg PA.

9. A Lehigh Valley 4-6-4 Wyomming Hudson for steam excursions on the NS Lehigh line.

10. A Erie Duplex Camelback 0-8-8-0 displayed aorund the GE's loco shops in Erie PA. 

I think I mentioned this before. But the fact is I would actually like to preserve 10 additional K4 Pacifics alongside 1361 and 3750. These are just K4s, there are plenty more I'd save. Among the K4s, I'd namely save...

1. 1737:
2. 5484: 
3. 5399:
4. 3847:
5. 1120: 
6. 3768: 
7. 945: 
8. 5038: 
9. 1188: 
10. 5371: 

The fact is these are only a few of the K4s I'd want to save. But they are my top 10 picks.

AS a member of the N%&HS and the PRRT&HS any list I posted would be bias. I will say that we should preserve each and every left even if only for static display indoors for future generations to enjoy and understand what the railroads did for and mean to this Great Country.

Gilly@N&W posted:

N&W 2300

 

N&W Y6b 2200

N&W S1a 244

 

N&W K2a 137

 

 

 

N&W J 613

 

N&W A 1242

N&W K3 209

N&W W2 946

N&W Z1b 1489

N&W V1 960

N&W M 496

N&W E2b 552

 

 

 

 

Ten isn't enough....

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, I think the original Roanoke Big Three (J 604, A 1212, and Y6a 2174), would be a good fit for Roanoke.

10: NYC J-3a Hudson, unstreamlined

9: NYC S-1b Niagara

8: PRR J1 Texas

7: PRR Q2 Duplex

6: C&O L-2 Hudson

5: CNW H-1 Northern

4: MILW A Atlantic

3: MILW F7 Hudson

2: CNW E-4 Hudson

1: ATSF Blue Goose Hudson

I decided this time I need to be more serious about what I would preserve and keep it within the realm of real life locomotives. As such, I am going to start with some locomotive I had in mind for a while.

New York Central Hudson #5405: Buffalo, NY (I just had to think of any J-3a).

New York Central Niagara #6012: National New York Central Railroad Museum; Elkhart, IN (Her numberplate actually resides there).

New York Central Niagara #6015: National Museum of Transportation; St. Louis, MO (She was the last Niagara and was scrapped near there).

Norfolk & Western Y6b #2174: VMT; Roanoke, VA (It's really horrid she was lost so recently).

Southern Pacific MT-4 #4354 (I saw sprite art of her, and could see a doubleheader with 4449).

Southern Pacific AC-12 #4274 (4294 is not enough Cab Forward action for any American).

Milwaukee Road A Class #3

Lackawanna Q4 #1632: Scranton, PA

Southern Ts-1 #6497 (with Ps-4 tender for future excursions)

Wabash Mountain #2822

I guess I'd want to go back a bit and focus on some vanished 19th Century treasures.

DSP&P - any one of the Mason 2-6-6's

  As luck would have it - one of these was saved and stood outside for many years - it was donated to one of the WWII scrap drives.

A good example of a pre-Civil War build 4-4-0 - The Amenia would suffice

A PRR D6 in original short boiler and high wheeler configuration

and for the early 20th Century - an Ma&Pa 2-8-0

  It is my understanding that in the case of the Ma&Pa 2-8-0 the real one was offered to museums but there were no takers.

As a newcomer to the hobby I'm a bit confused by the OP's posting and some of the responses.  Maybe there should be a separate thread, but if there were to be a top ten it might make more sense to be road name agnostic and just look at the engine and how it helped U.S. commerce, transportation, passengers, the war effort etc. in general.  There are a lot of cool looking trains but many duds (I have the S2 turbine PW, caterpillar and Pennsy T1... all fell short but look awesome).  

From a historical perspective I would put a higher priority on those engines that made a difference.  

PRR  J1 (2-10-4)

PRR N1/N2sa (2-10-2)

More K4s's (4-6-2 Pacific)

PRR C1 (Heaviest 0-8-0 ever)

UP Early Challenger (CSA)

Timken 1111 (NP 2626)

PRR Streamlined K4 

Erie Pacific K3 (4-6-2)

NYC J3a Hudsons (4-6-4)

B&LE 643 (Under Threat of being scrapped; plans in the works to save)

As  you can tell, I like eastern roadname steam locos!

The Allegheny 1600, 1602, 1603, 1605 , 1607, 1608.1609, 1610

Why  would you want to bring back anything else???