GRJ, to whom is the email addressed? RTR12 or RJR????
For that matter, I'm not sure to whom RTR12 was speaking.
I'm assuming that he was talking to me, since I'm sure you don't have any of the kits! 
GRJ, I was not clear. Chris said he had kits. RTR12 said he wanted some. You said send me an email. I didn't know if this was to me in reply to my request that you let us know when Henning has them available, or whether you were addressing RTR12.
Sorry about the confusion, I was talking to GRJ and am emailing him right now! I should have properly addressed things to GRJ above. GRJ, I sent the info to your forum email.
John's product is up on the Henning's website. The price is a little more than I expected.
Here's a link: http://hennings-trains.shoplig...r-insulated-tra.html
John, some weeks ago you said, "Stan, mine will be offered in kit form at $8/ea in lots of eight, $10 for smaller quantities. If you buy less than eight, you'll get either a partial panel or individual boards, that will be my choice."
When will these be available, and what will be the price. I believe you said that the kits will include all parts?
The kits are available now, send me an email. As for the price, read your post previous to this one. 
Consolidated Leo posted:John's product is up on the Henning's website. The price is a little more than I expected.
Here's a link: http://hennings-trains.shoplig...r-insulated-tra.html
Yep, that's the realities of marketing, they seem to think they should make a profit on stuff that they advertise and sell. 
Remember, that's the assembled and tested version, not a kit.
For a fully assembled, ready to use product of this type with no soldering required (which many seem to want), the pricing at Henning's seems quite fair to me. I believe there are other similar items out there priced much higher. The folks taking all the risk to design and build these items certainly deserve to make a profit on them.
John:
I have several questions concerning the documentation posted on the website. Here are the instructions:
Questions:
- For "J2", you say that each 1,000uf of capacitance ... results in approximately 1 second of delay. Ok, that's fine, but how does one go about changing the capacitance? Which knob is twiddled, which screw is turned? Please provide instructions.
- J3. I do not understand this at all. Among other questions, what is "board power"? It might be helpful if you provided examples of "signal common power options".
- J4. Is there a typo here? When you say "you can solder directly to the J2 location", do you really mean to say say "solder directly to the J4 location"? If you do indeed mean J2, and you don't use a "JST EH family header" (and I have no idea what that is), what is the purpose of J4? Again, if you could provide examples of some "complex signalling tasks" that might be handled, it would help some of us understand via context.
- It seems as though the leads labeled "Insulated Rail", "Center Rail", and "Outside Rail" refer to the insulated track section that trips the sensor. If one wanted to use this sensor to open and close the Center Rail circuit to a insulated block (i.e., consistent with the current flow to the red/green signals) where would the lead for the center rail in the insulated block section be attached?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Steven J. Serenska
Replies embedded below.
Serenska posted:John:
Questions:
For "J2", you say that each 1,000uf of capacitance ... results in approximately 1 second of delay. Ok, that's fine, but how does one go about changing the capacitance? Which knob is twiddled, which screw is turned? Please provide instructions.
No knobs or screws. You add your own capacitor(s) wired to those two terminals. So, if you added a 4700uf 35V capacitor, you'd get roughly 5 second hold-up time after the trigger event is gone.J3. I do not understand this at all. Among other questions, what is "board power"? It might be helpful if you provided examples of "signal common power options".
The "Board" power simply indicates where the power to actually power the track signal driver board is coming from. The "signal" power is where the power to drive whatever external signal you have is coming from. In the examples given, I showed a simple red/green signal, obviously you can drive whatever kind of signalling you like. I provided samples of all the combinations of board and signal power in the three diagrams.
J4. Is there a typo here? When you say "you can solder directly to the J2 location", do you really mean to say say "solder directly to the J4 location"? If you do indeed mean J2, and you don't use a "JST EH family header" (and I have no idea what that is), what is the purpose of J4? Again, if you could provide examples of some "complex signalling tasks" that might be handled, it would help some of us understand via context.
Yes, the J2 in that block should be J4, that will be corrected in the next release of the document. the JST EH family connector is a generic connector type with 2mm spacing. As far as what J4 is, I thought that was reasonably plain, it's a second set of contacts just like the NC#1, COM#1, and NO#1 set that appear on the terminal block. Since I has a DPDT relay, I brought out the second set of contacts to a header to enable them to be used if desired. Many people will have no need for these.
It seems as though the leads labeled "Insulated Rail", "Center Rail", and "Outside Rail" refer to the insulated track section that trips the sensor. If one wanted to use this sensor to open and close the Center Rail circuit to a insulated block (i.e., consistent with the current flow to the red/green signals) where would the lead for the center rail in the insulated block section be attached?
Since the relays are 2A relays, open and closing the center rail power is probably not advised, many locomotives will use more current than the 2A rating. This board is really intended to drive signals of various types, not to switch the track power.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish here?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Steven J. Serenska
Thank you Gunrunner for making these available. I just ordered two and if they keep my mth signals from chattering I will be happy.
I think the price is very reasonable.
thanks, Fred
P.S. Just curious, but how did you get the name gunrunner ? Contras, Mexican drug lords, or just Syrians? Whatever, thanks for making these boards!
I collect old pistols, I got the name in a couple of firearms forums years ago and it stuck. Guns and trains, don't they go together?
I'd say I run guns for the Mexican drug lords, but I'm sure the Fed's in one form or another would come storming in.
Just got a nice package in the mail this afternoon!! Everything looks great. Going to clean off the bench and start assembling maybe tomorrow.
It takes me 30-40 minutes to whack a panel of eight of these together, probably another 5 minutes to test them. I actually built myself a little tester with spring loaded test probes on it to do a quick functional test.
So to summarize, let me see if I got this straight?
If you want the assembled/tested board, order directly from Hennings ($19.99).
If you want a kit of parts with a bare-board, order/contact you directly ($10 each, $8 each if you buy 8).
BTW what does Quantity 2 mean on the Hennings site?
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Stan, your summary is correct as far as the kits.
The 2 on the Henning's site tells me that they only have two left in stock. However, I fix those problems whenever they crop up, I bring them more stock! That will probable be early next week.
This is a winner. I've been using a simplified version of it for years (just a bridge rectifier, capacitor, and relay) with Walthers and MTH crossing gates and Lionel 445 operating switch towers in conjunction with Atlas O block signals, with no problems whatsoever. This circuit makes notable improvements that will help ensure it will play well with the other electronics that many of us, me included, use nowadays.
gunrunnerjohn posted:
The 2 on the Henning's site tells me that they only have two left in stock...
Got it. I'm not familiar with their site - I initially thought you got quantity 2. Perhaps they should say "Quantity Available" or something like that.
Gunrunner, it took a bit to actually understand this device, then I read the summary on the Henning's train website and the fog cleared. For 1/2 the price of a 135IR I can get the same control, and probably more reliably with less finagling, but most importantly, "0" real estate on my layout. I have some places where using the I35IR is impractical. Placing my order now. Thanks.
Ah...out of stock! 
OK... The Henning's website already shows "out of stock". Time to make more, John!
David
Check back on Tuesday or Wednesday, they will have it updated. I have them waiting in the wings, plenty more stock.
Stan, I don't control the website, but saying what that quantity is would be a very good idea, I agree.
gunrunnerjohn posted:... I have them waiting in the wings, plenty more stock.
...
I don't know how I missed this thread until this morning!!! 
Anothing great product, John.
David
Thanks David, it's actually garnered more interest than I thought it would. You never know what will tweak someone's interest.
christhetrainguy09 posted:I've reworked my design and got the price down to a very reasonable price. For anyone interested just send me a email. It's a bit different than GRJ's board as it only uses a SPST relay and doesn't have the extra connections.
Is this a typo? Or did you really change from an SPDT to an SPST relay? You show an SPDT relay in your earlier photo (Omron G5LE). I believe you severely limit application if you only use a Single-Throw relay since you can't do red/green signal control which needs a Double-Throw relay.
Also is your plan to make this a private affair or will you post your schematic and Gerber zip to allow the DIY crowd to directly order bare boards from OSH Park? I'm trying to understand the various options.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Thanks David, it's actually garnered more interest than I thought it would. You never know what will tweak someone's interest.
Now you are going to have to hire a delivery driver to go along with the shipping clerk.
The printed instructions look very nice as well!! However, I don't think I will be assembling them quite as fast as you do. 
christhetrainguy09 posted:
...It would be a typo. Didn't have enough coffee to catch my phones auto correct failure.
Well, my phone converts "SPDT Relay" to "Soft Relay" 
As I said, I'm trying to understand all the options that are/will be available to the OGR community. If you're still using the Omron G5LE relay (10 Amp contacts) note the recent posting about switching center-rail power. So for guys wanting block power control (in addition to signal lamp control) for automated train spacing, the 10 Amp contacts come in handy.
Chris, surface mount may throw a few people, one of the reasons I went with the all thru-hole design. I could have made this smaller and a bit cheaper as well with surface mount. I thought about it, but for the kits I figured that the all thru-hole option probably made more sense for ease of assembly. Most anyone that can solder can do thru-hole assembly, SMT assembly takes a finer hand. That also depends on exactly what you specified for the surface mount parts.
GRJ, US guys with 5 thumbs per hand and over 40 eyesight appreciate your NOT having used surface mount.
An interesting idea set out in the above thread is to use this for train spacing. As a thought, if one places a high-wattage resistor of say, 3-5 ohms across the terminals of the relay, when the relay activates, the voltage to the track can be substantially reduced to slow the train without triggering a reverse unit or causing a DCS loco to shut down after the supercap discharges.
[" NOT" added after GRJ pointed out (below) that the added thumbs & over-40 eyesight are giving me problems]
I hope you meant not using Surface Mount. 100% thru-hole here.
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gunrunnerjohn posted:Replies embedded below.
Serenska posted:John:
Questions:
It seems as though the leads labeled "Insulated Rail", "Center Rail", and "Outside Rail" refer to the insulated track section that trips the sensor. If one wanted to use this sensor to open and close the Center Rail circuit to a insulated block (i.e., consistent with the current flow to the red/green signals) where would the lead for the center rail in the insulated block section be attached?
Since the relays are 2A relays, open and closing the center rail power is probably not advised, many locomotives will use more current than the 2A rating. This board is really intended to drive signals of various types, not to switch the track power.What exactly are you trying to accomplish here?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Steven J. Serenska
John:
Thanks for your quick reply:
Since the relays are 2A relays, open and closing the center rail power is probably not advised, many locomotives will use more current than the 2A rating. This board is really intended to drive signals of various types, not to switch the track power.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish here?
Unfortunately, opening and closing the center rail is exactly what I was trying to accomplish. I am running a completely conventional layout and was looking for a "one-stop-shopping" solution for a 1) insulated-rail driven, 2) chatter-free relay to be used as part of a 3) block control system.
I didn't realize you were using 2A relays. I'll keep looking for a solution that meets my needs.
Thanks again for doing all this.
Steven J. Serenska
Rocky Mountaineer posted:OK... The Henning's website already shows "out of stock".
David
All fixed, 10 in stock.
John,
I am interested in purchasing four or five but notice there are discussions of optional equipment. Are there options available on site? Also, are there codes that we should input on the site?
John,
I just tried to order 5 and was only allowed to order 2. Is this a limited edition or will more be available?
There should be plenty to order.
I just checked, and they say out of stock again. I'll call and see what's going on. There will be more.
Mystery solved, I gave them ten this morning, and they were all purchased! We'll have more up tomorrow.
Check stock in an hour or so, there should be more available.
Gunrunnerjohn, I tried to understand this thread through all 7 pages without much success. So, first, thanks for your efforts to develop a solution to a problem.
Since I am new to train layouts and will be using O gauge 3-rail, tubing track, will someone explain in layman's terms how you should use this device (or something similar) to turn on lights (red/green signal lights, road crossing signal lights, #45 gateman, etc.)? How many sections of track should be included in the insulated section before the light? If the first wheels that cross the insulated joint in the track turns the green light off/red light on (or makes the gateman come out of the shack), what signals the red light to change back to green? What makes the gateman go back in the shack?
If there is a good explanation for how this "switch" should be used, please point me in the right direction. Hopefully, this is not a stupid question for all of you experienced train folks.
DS, do be aware that when using old-style Lionel tubular track, in addition to a fiber pin, you'll have to remove a rail and put insulation under it, unless you can find a type OSS track.
