Lionel ZW-C and MTH PS-1 Locomotives

Something is causing a small DC offset in the voltage on the rails, the Light in the caboose eats it.

The lights in the engine are running off power already stepped down to internal voltages, they don't use much power.

So why are only non-Lionel locomotives affected by it, as it's only listed in the manual under "Running other brand locomotives"?

The ZW-C uses a chopped waveform as it is an electronic transformer that uses triacs to regulate the track voltage.  It's quite common for these to affect some PS/1 locomotives and cause those exact symptoms, either the horn or bell triggering randomly.

A pure sine wave transformer is preferred in this environment.  I also have the ZW-C and a Z4000, the Z4000 runs the PS/1 stuff without a hitch, not always the case with the ZW-C.

I'm committed to the ZW-C because it allows me to control track voltage via the Cab-1, so I can run my PS-1 locomotives like my TMCC engines, in a manner.  And I find it hard to believe that we can blame the chopped wave thing since all my CW-80s (3+ different ones) run them without the horn going, and that's also a chopped wave, unless it's chopping differently.

If I get any MTH PS-2/3 locomotives, with they also have problems with the ZW-C?  I'd like to know before I spend the money for one, as well as what things I should be aware of as performance and such, and ways to address the issues (Other than buy a different transformer.  I got this thing with the meters for the same price as a Z4000, so it was a no brainer since I have TMCC.).

PS/2 doesn't typically have any issues with chopped waves.  It's just the earlier PS/1 boards did have a known issue with that kind of transformer.  This has been discussed a number of times.

People have also had issues with the CW-80 and some PS/1 locomotives, presumably for the same reason.  I've also had issues running certain PS/1 locomotives with a variable channel of the MTH TIU, again for the same reason.

It's just "the way it works".

Okay.  My main worry is I've seen people blame the chopped wave as the reason PS2/3 locomotives don't work with CW-80s, so I haven't bought a loco equipped, and was worried I'd have the same problem with the ZW-C.  If PS2/3 locos work with the ZW-C, then I may just have run out of reasons to not get a Triplex that I've been drooling over...

Typically, when you're running command on that transformer, you have it full throttle to get the 18 volts track voltage.  At that setting, there is almost a whole sine wave coming out, very little "chop".

No the ZW-C is not good with PS-2 in the conventional environment.  The Bell/ whistle buttons will not activate the PS-2 features, even if using CAB-1.  Additionally the engine will run some what slower because of the chopped voltage.

I have no issues with my new PS-1 on the ZW-c, but some older stuff or original QSI could have issues too.

If you use some lighted lock-ons you shouldn't have any issues with the horn for PS-1.  On my layout I have not see any random horn/whistle issues other that from an occasional dirty section of track.  G

That's why I specifically stated command GGG.

Most likely there will be lighted cabooses or passenger cars with the locomotives.  I may not get to the features, but will the bell and whistles at least work as a bell and whistle with the ZW-C?  If I really need to program them, I can put them on a separate track with the MTH Z1000 I have I guess.

In command mode with full voltage from the ZW-C, you aren't going to have any issues over other transformers.

Only I'll be using them in conventional, I don't have DCS, just TMCC right now.  If I actually go full command, it'll be long after I finish a layout, which I haven't started yet, but it projected to take at least 4 years.

GGG, was there a point to simply quoting my previous reply?

John, Your first sentence of the quote.  The ZW-C is a chopped wave transformer, and PS-2 engines can have issues in conventional, like jerky speed control, and lack of ability to control features like PFA and couplers with the bell and whistle.   G

I previously mentioned that it's not an issue for command operation as you're running full throttle, I missed it there.  Of course, you could have just stated that instead of just quoting the message with no explanation.

So I turn speed control off, I never use PFA (Don't like it.), and I'll treat them like my TMCC engines, use the 1st car attached to the locomotive to uncouple.  When I run conventional, all I care about is that it runs forward/neutral/reverse, has the engine/steam sounds, and I can blow the whistle/horn and turn the bell on/off.  Yes, I'm a pretty simple guy.

Sinc,  Then it probably doesn't matter what transformer you uses.  But if some one likes speed control, wants to access features, they might be better off with a transformer that is closer to pure sine wave for MTH engines.  G

Except I have been told time and time again that PS2/3 locomotives will not do anything but sit there if you use a CW-80, so transformers matter to a point.  I just want to make sure I won't have that problem with the ZW-C.  Thanks.

You won't have issues with basic functions with ZW-C.  I have the ZW-C and a Power Master on my layout and the PS-2 will run.  I have a few a little jumpy and there is at least one flash code not meant to be in PS-2 boards that will not run well on chopped input.  As I stated early just no ability to access the conventional features.  I also have the K-line 120W Power Chief, which supposedly was modeled after the CW-80.  It actually controls PS-2 very well and the horn and bell button can access the PS-2 features.  G