Need Help - Legacy Signal / Ground Plane Issue

Do the trains ever operate on these bad areas correctly?  Have you tried powering up the Legacy base first and then applying power to the layout?

There can be a bit of a delay in the signal getting to the track . Powering up the base only first makes sure the command signal is there first.

Are you using the correct Legacy base power adapter, that has a 3rd separate ground pin? Is it plugged directly into a wall power receptacle, and NOT through a long extension cord that is coiled up? Are you sure the receptacle is properly grounded to the bare copper groind wire in your receptacle box? (Legacy uses the ground wire in your entire house wiring for the return signal) Has your Legacy system ever performed satisfactorily elsewhere?

Rod

I would split the legacy base signal wire into four and connect to each of the TIU Output common (black) or connect it to Fixed 1 and jumper the other 3 output commons.

Next, I would make sure that the outside rails are connected except in areas where you may have an isolated rail for operational triggering.

This will ensure good signal through your wiring system.

Then, observe the engine/signal behavior.

This is as simple as making up some jumpers to test - then, make it pretty if it does the trick.

RickO posted:

Do the trains ever operate on these bad areas correctly?  Have you tried powering up the Legacy base first and then applying power to the layout?

There can be a bit of a delay in the signal getting to the track . Powering up the base only first makes sure the command signal is there first.

@RickO Yes the engines sometimes operate correctly those areas. If I start them up in the siding and then bring them on the main line, they will operate through those areas which they cannot “start up” in. From time to time, they will stall in those areas and the cab lights will flash and will no longer respond to the CAB2. If I cut track power and reapply power and do not move engines from the fail spot, they do not start up in command mode. 

When I start up the layout, I do power on the command base first and then turn on ZW-C.

Rod Stewart posted:

Are you using the correct Legacy base power adapter, that has a 3rd separate ground pin? Is it plugged directly into a wall power receptacle, and NOT through a long extension cord that is coiled up? Are you sure the receptacle is properly grounded to the bare copper groind wire in your receptacle box? (Legacy uses the ground wire in your entire house wiring for the return signal) Has your Legacy system ever performed satisfactorily elsewhere?

Rod

@Rod Stewart 

I’m using the power adapter that came with the Legacy system. It’s not a 3rd party plug. I have tried both plugging directly in wall and power strip with no change in issue. 

I took the outlet cover off and I can see the copper wire connected to the green screw on the plug. I used a outlet tested and I get a proper ground reading back. 

Legacy seems to work fine when the engines do start up in command mode. I have command Fastrack switches and they do respond correctly to commands.

Moonman posted:

I would split the legacy base signal wire into four and connect to each of the TIU Output common (black) or connect it to Fixed 1 and jumper the other 3 output commons.

Next, I would make sure that the outside rails are connected except in areas where you may have an isolated rail for operational triggering.

This will ensure good signal through your wiring system.

Then, observe the engine/signal behavior.

This is as simple as making up some jumpers to test - then, make it pretty if it does the trick.

@Moonman Right now I have the Legacy ground connected to the D “U” terminal on the ZW-C. 

On my TIU, I only have power coming out of the fixed terminal. All others aren’t used. Would your suggest still apply? Is the idea to connect all black terminals together?

Should I want to move where I connect the Legacy base? TIU or MTH terminal block or directly to the track?

Have you tried connecting the wire from the Legacy base only to the black output terminal of the fixed channel you are using?  This would bypass going through the TIU.

I had many of the same issues you have with the Legacy signal.  I greatly reduced any signal issues by:

1) Connecting the legacy signal wire to the output of the TIU and jumpered to all black terminals since I am using all channels. This has been suggested above.

2) Purchased and installed a TMCC/Legacy signal booster from Gunrunnerjohn (see post in featured topics for TMCC, Legacy forum). Besides the signal boost this item provides a common earth ground attachment point.

3) Ran ground wire (plane) around entire upper level and attached to common earth ground from signal booster.

Even with the above I had one engine that was not consistent in accepting commands. This is almost always related to the antenna method of the engine.

Just a couple...

The ground wire around the upper level (essentially over the lower level) is just a wire. There is nothing (plane) about it and a ribbon or strip of copper is not needed or helpful...it's just a wire and #20 or so is fine.

The booster not only boosts your Legacy Base signal, but it shows that your base signal is adequate going into the booster. There have been some base signal outputs that have been very weak (broken). So knowing your base is ok signal wise is helpful even if you don't adjust the gain to boost the base signal.

When you get down to one or two locomotives that are problematic, it's frequently the TMCC receiver sensitivity.  First thing I do is swap out the R2LC (or R4LC) to see if that helps.  I've yet to run across a TMCC sensitivity issue with the new Legacy RCMC electronics, but I suspect it's only a matter of time.

MrMoe50 posted:

Have you tried connecting the wire from the Legacy base only to the black output terminal of the fixed channel you are using?  This would bypass going through the TIU.

 

I have made this change and will keep my Legacy connection here going forward.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

When you get down to one or two locomotives that are problematic, it's frequently the TMCC receiver sensitivity.  First thing I do is swap out the R2LC (or R4LC) to see if that helps.  I've yet to run across a TMCC sensitivity issue with the new Legacy RCMC electronics, but I suspect it's only a matter of time.

I just purchased one of your boosters

Kenjr posted:

I had many of the same issues you have with the Legacy signal.  I greatly reduced any signal issues by:

1) Connecting the legacy signal wire to the output of the TIU and jumpered to all black terminals since I am using all channels. This has been suggested above.

2) Purchased and installed a TMCC/Legacy signal booster from Gunrunnerjohn (see post in featured topics for TMCC, Legacy forum). Besides the signal boost this item provides a common earth ground attachment point.

3) Ran ground wire (plane) around entire upper level and attached to common earth ground from signal booster.

Even with the above I had one engine that was not consistent in accepting commands. This is almost always related to the antenna method of the engine.

Thank you for suggestions. I just purchased the booster. Hopefully this will help!

cjack posted:

Just a couple...

The ground wire around the upper level (essentially over the lower level) is just a wire. There is nothing (plane) about it and a ribbon or strip of copper is not needed or helpful...it's just a wire and #20 or so is fine.

The booster not only boosts your Legacy Base signal, but it shows that your base signal is adequate going into the booster. There have been some base signal outputs that have been very weak (broken). So knowing your base is ok signal wise is helpful even if you don't adjust the gain to boost the base signal.

Thanks. I just purchased the booster.