Southern RR Fans- PHOTOS

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Neal:
On the MTH Southern RS-1:

Technically, I think the crew is in backwards, since they are facing the long hood. Even though the Southern may have marked the long end forward, most photos I have seen show the locomotive running short hood forward. I may reverse the crew on my locomotive (or at least have them facing opposite directions).

Also, the dummy unit, #406, is not correct. The A&EC only had one RS-1, and the

Keep in mind I'm a noobie here.. but.. I kept trying to use my MTH controller in conventional mode for my RS-3, and everything was backwards. That was with the short hood forward... so, as best as I could figure, the long hood should be forward... but I really am not sure. I was just going off of the signal directions for the forward first on power, and which coupler fired as per instruction sheet. Maybe I'm wrong though, am i missing something?

Personally, I wouldn't worry about which direction first. Any more than I'd worry that few RS engines got many chances to pull CSX cars. The blue/yellow boxcar would more likely have been L&N. But no big deal. Besides, on the engine you've got no choice in conventional mode. You have to go by how it's set up.

hey dewey!! you're not upsetting me at all!! i like joking with you about your steam engines vs. my diesel engines, but we both know who wins any disagreements you may have about diesel engines.............I DO!!!!.........lol.......... ...........rogerw.

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey Trogdon:
I hate to come out of the steam "closet" and spoil the fun with my friend Roger, our President of The Module Club. But I bet I have more real "disals" than Roger does. My stinkers are from 1941-1960, dates when diesel started on the SRR and steam ended, '53 on SRR and '60 on N&W---the "transition" period. Those disals like Rogers with a mule logo on the nose like some of Rogers don't count. As the NS Annual Report said, we are a "Transportation Company"---Southern and N&W were Railroads.

And now we have got "Kilowatt Sean" fooling with Buck Duke's Electrics on the hated Piedmont & Northern RR [hated by Southern, ACL, Seaboard and Duke Power shareholders,etc.].

Now I have got to quit aggravating Roger,having fun and go back to ballasting. Next to root canals and prostate biopsies, ballasting is my favorite thing to procrastinate and grouse about .

Thinking about having Jeff Sohn repaint and redecorate one of my Spencer Ps-4s in the livery of the famous Queen & Crescent engine #6482. It towed the all-Pullman Queen & Crescent on the CNO&TP Line from Cincinnati to New Orleans and was rostered at Ferguson Shops in Ludlow,Ky.
By the time MTH, Lionel or whomever gets around to modeling this famous engine I will likely have stopped paying taxes and buying shoes .

TIES Magazine reports that it was Southern's most photographed Ps-4, mainly because Erlanger Hill southbound out of Cincinnati was a favorite Newspaper and Railfan photo site. #6482 had a Wimble Smoke Deflector installed to help the engine crew endure the infamous long and narrow Rathole tunnels of the CNO&TP.

Dewey, I'm pretty confident the 6482 never wore "Queen and Crescent" on her tender. She might have pulled it once or twice but I doubt she ever got past Somerset, or Chattanooga. 6482 was known as the "Queen Bee" because of her assigned use on the Royal Palm but I'm pretty sure she never wore the Queen and Crescent scheme. Also, she never wore the "Southern" logo in front of her cab windows.

She was uniquely decorated though with brass candlesticks, her brass eagle, brass stars on the front of her cylinders and of course that signature Ferguson Shop (located in Somerset, KY not Ludlow)-built Wimble Smoke Duct. BTW, here's some great shots of the pride of the CNO&TP.

quote:

Originally posted by Ginsaw:
Personally, I wouldn't worry about which direction first. Any more than I'd worry that few RS engines got many chances to pull CSX cars. The blue/yellow boxcar would more likely have been L&N. But no big deal. Besides, on the engine you've got no choice in conventional mode. You have to go by how it's set up.

Like I said, noobie here. Anyways, the is just a temp setup of Fastrack to I run while working on the layout. Just was curious as to which was the "front" of the engine. The

Brian, many diesels of many roads including Southern had an "F" painted on the frame side during a certain time period, and I presume to mark which is the front. All of my Southern, CofG and S&A GP-35s and my Southern SD-35 have the "F" on the short hood cab end (not the long end), as do of course engines of other roads.

Now, the question would be on Southern what does that mean. I'm frankly not sure. I have seen pics of diesels with either end facing the front on trains. I also seem to remember seeing either facing the front, and I mean before the current generation of GEs.

Or, maybe the "F" has some other meaning I'm not aware of, perhaps something for maintenance shop use.

But, the RS I don't know. Maybe you can find a prototype pic that shows which direction is forward and if there's an "F" marking.

Anyway, like I said somewhere else here, in today's world I reckon scarcely one out of a thousand persons taken at random ever heard of the Southern Ry. So you're free to go at this however you like.

Southern6482
You are correct of course. #6482 was a regular on the Royal Palm not the Queen & Crescent Limited. My yellow pad notes from long ago are incorrect. I dug out my SRHA/TIES 6 part articles on the Pacifics--"Those Aristocratic Pacifics"---which show only two locomotives lettered for the "Queen & Crescent". Also,B&W photos in the Prince and Rank & Lowe Southern books verify that #6977 and #6689 Tenders were lettered for the Queen and Crescent. I also have Jim Jordan's fine painting[print]of AGS's #6689 Queen & Crescent Limited, titled "Queen of The South".

Thanks for your information. I assume a guy with your Forum handle knows his stuff on the 6482 . So,if I ever get a PS-4 decorated for the Queen & Crescent it will be #6689.

ps: The Engine spotter's features on 6482 [Ferguson Shops at Somerset,Ky]note that #6482 was assigned to Spencer Shops in 1949.

Dewey,
MTH has the Queen and Crescent in their 2011 V2 Catalog.
of course it's had to tell what road number MTH is using but it looks like 6488 and not 6489 or 6689 Which would be correct.
Plus MTH is still hung on Red Roof Syndrome when in comes to Southern Ps-4!

The famous ""Harrison Engines", Ps-4 Pacifics delivered in Virginia Green with Gold lettering and striping, were all initially assigned,rostered and maintained by the forces at four of Southern Railway's major shops:

South Shops, Atlanta, Ga.[later named Pegram Shops]rostered 1393,1394,1401,1402 and 1403.

Spencer Shops, Spencer, N.C. had #1395,1396,1397,1398,1399,1400 and 1404.[eventually, postwar and beginning in 1945, all Harrision Ps-4s systemwide were assigned to Spencer as diesel was increasingly taking over mainline passenger service].

Ferguson Shops, Somerset, Ky.[CNN&TP] had #6476,6477,6478,6479,6480,6481 and 6482.

Finley Shops, Birmingham, Ala.[AGS] had #6688,6689,6690 and 6691.

There were no other numbers rostered in this distinctive group of 1926 engines [which included the Crescent Limited and Queen & Crescent engines], a group all named for Southern Ry President Fairfax Harrision.

...TIES Magazine of Southern Railway Historical Association March-April 1994.

Sean
There were four Harrison Ps-4s assigned to the Crescent Limited and three to the Queen & Crescent Limited. I don't recall all of the engine numbers and my old notes are not too reliable.
I did find where my note listing Ps-4 6482 as power for the Queen & Crescent Limited came from. Harold Ranks and Shelby Lowe in their book, "Southern Steam Power" show a photo of #6482 leaving Cincinnati in 1933 ahead of what the caption describes as the "Queen & Crescent Limited".
However, the 12 wheel tender displays "Southern" on the side as opposed to Queen & Crescent Limited lettering. So,I believe our Southern6482 colleague's correction of my earlier post is accurate.

New Southern Railway Inspection Vehicle




I found another O scale Big John hopper kit on ebay. I had someone assemble it.



Recently released Lionel Southern U30Cs

That Inspection Car is something else! Looks like a 1930s LaSalle.

Dewey,
Ps-4 1393 Thru 1396 where letter for the Southern Crescent
while 6688 thru 6690 where lettered for the Queen and Crescent Limited. I'll have to check but was the consist for the Queen and Crescent an all pullman train just like the Crescent Limited?

Neal those U30C are awsome!!
Just hate the fact the Lionel made them with short hoods.
Are you going to make an attempt to change the hoods?

SEAN
Thanks for the Ps-4 name train engine ifo. Yes, the "Queen of The South" was all Pullman, Cincinnati to New Orleans.
I have two #1396 Crescent Limited engines, one MTH and one Lionel. I may get one of them redecorated as a Queen & Crescent Limited. The MTH 1396 along with the MTH 1401 was an early purchase directly from MTH and Wolf had the 1396 cab done all green, I guess to shut me up [the outer carton arrived with "green cab" written on it in big, bold letters]. I did research on the Southern steam and diesel paint numbers and trim schemes for Mike and his brother-in-law Mark Hipp and sent several of my Southern books and photos to Columbia for their use.
My Ps-4 #1403 is Lionel and the other #1401 is a Williams brass engine I bought in Memphis during the late '80s along with two brass SRR MIkados and a SRR A-B-A F7 set with OTT sound[diecast]. Ironically, one of the Williams Mikes is decorated as a Ms-4[#4869] but it is not a big heavy Mikado.

quote:

My Ps-4 #1403 is Lionel and the other #1401 is a Williams brass engine I bought in Memphis during the late '80s

Dewey, if the engines came from who I think in Memphis, I used to do business with him too. That's where my MTH Proto 1 Crescent Ltd and Lionel Crescent set came from, along with my original '50s Southern 2356 AA and original IC 2363 AB.

quote:

Originally posted by ROGERW:

I love your layout. Reminds me of Memphis (Forrest) Yard, which I still live next to. (The K-Lines, Hanjins, and Maersks are on the farthest track from the front, just like in Memphis!)
Too much green for me though. When I grew up, all of the Southern fleet I saw was black (except for the 2 diesels tailing #4501, which I was lucky enough to ride.). We also had "Mo-Pac"s and "Missouri Pacific"s in the same time period, then "Missouri Pacific" UP engines and Norfolk Southern stock.

This is why I'm happy to own an MTH black Southern FM Trainmaster (#6301). It's older than what I grew up with, but the lettering is surprisingly accurate.

It does resemble Forrest Yard - as seen riding by on Southern Avenue. A stack train on that outside mainline is a common sight.

I remember the MoPac's presence there too. Seems like it was '80s maybe, but it's been a while.

thanks Señor J. for checking out my photos, i like mth's engines, so i had to wait until they decided to paint some of their southern engines black. i have mth-premier southern F3 abba, sd-35, gp-35 sd70-ace southern (heritage) and norfolk southern ocs F7/F9 abba all in southern black...............rogerw.

At one pont the Southern was in meger talks with the Mopac but I can remember what year the merger was to take place. I know it was way before the creation of Norfolk Southern.

RogerW
I just love your roadname and your engines are outstanding.

Great pictures everyone and thanks for sharing. This is a great thread.

Sean, there's talk about the proposed Southern/MoPac merger you can find on the net, but I recall it was mid '70s. It's something only briefly considered by SR and it was Southern that called it off. I believe it would have been a takeover by MoPac. Southern also considered merging with IC or ICG a few years later.

The first real big merger I remember locally was Rock Island. That's the one that set in motion what all else eventually happened. I well remember seeing their engines, and I mean many, many engines, in Memphis all lined up, shut down and idled when operations ceased. It was a very sad sight for a railfan.

Anyway, this has all prompted me to dig out some of my old Memphis railfan photos from the late '70s. Forrest Yard was a good place for that, but the best was Broadway at IC Junction, the approach to the Mississippi River bridges. You can glimpse any and everything there. One of my old photos shows Southern GP-30 #2526 (cab end facing forward instead of long hood end forward) at the lead headed to Arkansas. It's on a track that goes across the Harahan Bridge, also used by MoPac, SSW and CRI&P. Behind it on an adjacent track is a Cotton Belt unit. And behind that are a couple Frisco diesels (SD-45s I do believe) in-bound off their own bridge.

wmwalker, thanks for looking at my photos. i appreciate your comments!!!!..............rogerw.

Roger,
Look like you need to name your yard Forrest Yard!!

I also found information on the net about the Southern looking to Electrify lines from Cincinnati, Ohio to Chattanooga, Tenn., and beyond to Atlanta, Ga in the 1970 during the energy crisis. I have a feeling if this would have taken place railroading in the south and on the Southern would have a very different look and feel. It's even possible to think that High Speed Rail would have been up and running by now from Atlanta to Washington D.C.

several people have commented that my yard looks like "forrest yard"!! can someone post a picture of what "forrest yard" looks like???..................rogerw.

RogerW:

Forrest Yard

Thanks lionlman!!!!! ....................rogerw.

Regarding the MoPac/Southern connection, you can mix MoPac diesels in with Southern engine consists and be prototypical for the '70s and '80s. I'd just put a Southern engine at the lead. That would apply for the Memphis end of the system. As for SR's other regions, I couldn't say.

And if you have 'um, you could add other Southern diesels in your consist. You can have, say, three engines - Southern, CofG and S&A. I've personally seen such consists coming out of Forrest Yard. Atlas made those engines, all tuxedo painted. They look great as an M/U consist.

Also, if you wanted a layout to resemble Forrest Yard in '50s, '60s or '70s I'd put in a small platform passenger station on the mainline leading out of the eastern end of the yard. That would be Buntyn Station. Put in a parking area for it adjacent to a street, and that will be Southern Avenue. There should be a pic of this on the same website Lionlman linked.

A more or less accurate rendition would be Lionel's lighted Post War #157 station.

Anyway, not that it matters, but as a child I lived across the street from it, and the station and the town of Buntyn were named for my great, great grandfather. The yard of course was named for Gen. Forrest. He did some railroad contracting after the war, for which he was also known. Forrest City in Arkansas is named after him because of that.

Btw, if anyone was really interested in re-creating a Memphis themed Southern Ry operation, the old Lauderdale Yard and Memphis & Charleston Passenger Station/Freight House have far more possibilities for model railroading than does Forrest Yard. They just had a lot more variety going on there and older and more interesting buildings. You'll find pics of all that on the same website, along with pics of Southern "freight hog" 2-8-2 Mikes.

ginsaw, i wish that mth would make central of georgia and savannah & atlanta engines in high hood versions. i only run dcs on my layout..............rogerw.

Does anyone know what all subsidiary roadnames Southern used on its diesels besides the CofG and S&A? Those are the only two I ever actually saw in person. Both were on tuxedo schemed engines in consists with others just marked Southern.

THE ALABAMA GREAT SOUTHERN COMPANY
ATLANTIC & EAST CAROLINA RAILWAY
ALBANY & NORTHERN RAILROAD COMPANY
BLUE RIDGE RAILROAD COMPANY
CENTRAL of GEORGIA RAILWAY COMPANY
THE CINCINNATI, NEW ORLEANS & TEXAS PACIFIC CO.
CAROLINA & NORTHWESTERN
DANVILLE & WESTERN
GEORGIA, ASHBURN, SYLVESTER & CAMILLA RAILWAY CO.
GEORGIA & FLORIDA RAILWAY COMPANY
GEORGIA SOUTHERN & FLORIDA RAILWAY COMPANY
GEORGIA NORTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY
INTERSTATE RAILROAD
KENTUCKY & INDIANA TERMINAL RAILROAD COMPANY
LIVE OAK, PERRY & GULF RAILROAD COMPANY
LOUISANA SOUTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY
NEW ORLEANS & NORTHEASTERN RAILROAD COMPANY
NEW RIVER RAILWAY COMPANY
SAVANNAH & ATLANTA RAILWAY COMPANY
SOUTH GEORGIA RAILWAY COMPANY
SOUTHERN RAILWAY COMPANY
TENNESSEE RAILROAD COMPANY
WRIGHTSVILLE & TENNILLE RAILROAD COMPANY

While the locomotive might be lettered for the Southern the subsidiary road would be located under the engine number on the cab.

Sean, that's a pretty good list. Thanks for going to the trouble to do those. But, the Central of Georgia and Savannah & Atlanta subsidiary names I was thinking about aren't in small letters under the engine number on the cab. They're in large gold letters substituted for "Southern" on the main part of the side. That's how they are on my Atlas engines and the same as I've actually seen in the past on the prototype. As a matter of fact, I think it's a tribute to Jim Weaver's great knowledge and creativity to have picked those names to do in Southern's tuxedo paint scheme. I was pretty impressed when they came out and considered them a "must buy".

Like I said, I've never seen on either the Southern prototype or toy SR version any of the other subsidiaries done that way. But that doesn't mean they didn't exist at some point.

Btw, there are only two other roads I can think of where I've seen the same thing on the prototype. SP had their engines lettered for Southern Pacific and Cotton Belt. And UP had yellow engines lettered for Missouri Pacific along with their own.

I forgot to note that the Central of Georgia,Savannah and Atlanta,Carolina Northwestern,Interstate and Blue Ridge Railroad subsidiary where the only ones that had there locomotives lettered for there own roads. Even with the merger with the Southern and Norfolk Southern the subsidiary name where still being applied under the numbers on the cab.

I looked up the CofG and found it had 5 GP-35s built in '63. They were roadnumbers 210-214. My Atlas Southern tuxedo schemed CofG is #214, so the whole group of GP-35s must have been the same. They also had SD-35s but I don't know the paint scheme. Probably tuxedo also.

S&A did have some Southern tuxedo painted Geeps. One is my Atlas GP-35 #2712. Atlas also did S&A #2707. Pics are on Atlas' website. I also found out that prototype #2715 is the only surviving Savannah & Atlanta diesel-electric engine. It's also in Southern's tuxedo paint scheme.

I checked Georgia & Florida and Alabama Great Southern, but couldn't find anything but steam ops. However, I have this vague recollection of just maybe seeing a Southern engine back in the '70s with AGS spelled out on the side too. But that's far from certain.

Probably it was ones that Southern owned which still had roadnumbers listed under the old company names.

So is anyone planning to get the 2 run of 3rd Rail E7 in Southern?

What passenger consist would you run with it? It would have to be 18"ers to fit on my layout. No full scale size cars.

Sean:

Count me in for the 3rd Rail Southern E-7s. How many road numbers are they offering? I cannot tell from the ad. Now if they will do some passenger cars in Southern to go with the E-7s.

Neal Jeter

The E7 would be a perfect match to use MTH Premierline 20-66194, 20-65107, or the older 20-6503 70' Aluminum car.

Are those generic Southern or do they represent some particular named train? And did Southern have 70' aluminum cars?

For me to get interested in this, the streamliner would almost have to be the Tennessean as that was the main one which ran into Memphis. Well, we also had the Birmingham Special, but I don't know what cars that one had.

I've already got Lionel's Tennessean, but it's 15" cars and would look odd behind E units. You need to use Fs for that. I've long wished there were some way to stretch them to 18". I really don't understand why someone hasn't produced an aluminum 18" set for the Tennessean. Just my opinion, but I think K-Line would have done it, if they'd stuck around. They did others, like the IC City of New Orleans.

Ginsaw, mth did produce 18" passenger cars for the tennessean and southern crescent. you can find these passenger cars in mth's 2007 catalog. if you'll look on page 4 of this thread, you will see the passenger cars from the 2007 catalog. also in mth's 2012 vol.1 catalog (just released) there are some new premier 18" southern passenger cars that goes along with the re-released dl-109 diesel engine set. i couldn't see the names on the passenger cars in the catalog....................rogerw.

Lionel canceled the Southern Passenger car from the K-line due to the lack of preorder. I had them order and was pissed to find out they were canceled. The K-line car would have been the most prototypical Southern passenger made to date. these car would have been perfect for Southern passenger operations from the mid 60's to the mid 70's.
The cars had the SR emblem on the vestibule doors and the roofs where painted black and the cars lacked the side skirting so you can see all of the undercarriage details.
I hope Lionel will still release these car in a future catalog with some Southern FP7'S!!