UP Steam Shop Video update

Can't help but to say this reminds me of my neighbors who put 10,000 dollars into landscaping and a nice in-ground pool just to rip out the pool and redo the brand new landscaping for another 10,000 dollars.

Can't really understand what's with this guy's rhetoric of "its not broken, but lets fix it anyways".

Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing 844 hitting the rails SOMETIME soon. (Sometime can be a relative term to some people).

When you look at some of the questionable repairs they uncovered you can't blame them for checking everything out and fixing it right. 

A direct link to You Tube, from The Union Pacific Steam Shop. Feb. 26th, 2016. 

Cheyenne, Wyoming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9EpixIdf6M

Gary - Cheers from The Detroit and Mackinac Railway

Honest question: has Ed ever specified reasons for work on specific areas on the locomotive that weren't a result of his crews mistakes? For example, areas of work that needed to be done that weren't due to the flattening of the drivers or lack of proper water treatment.

What questionable work was discovered ?

And away we go...

Wonder what Hot Water is thinking?

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Wonder what Hot Water is thinking?

Well, for one thing, that video plainly shows that the current manager does NOT understand the FRA rules pertaining to locomotive air brakes. Note how the brake valve components are labeled with the COTS date? The "COTS" applies ONLY to railroad freight equipment and NOT railroad locomotives, steam, diesel, or otherwise. Maybe someone there in Cheyenne should be reading the FRA regulations pertaining to locomotives.

On the positive side:
- it appears that a certified welder has been on the scene for a while and progress on boiler repairs has been made.
- 844 parts are being cleaned, inspected and repaired if needed along with the similar 4014 parts.

Major items to be done not shown in video.
- Flue tubes still need to be installed?
- FRA inspections?
- pressure tests?
- Looks like they still have a ways to go on 844

You ever wonder if these videos are posted here to get the forum spun up?  We pretty much know what the end results are going to be sooner than later. 

Actually I post the official UP videos mostly to get the other side of the story out there so that you can decide for yourself what to believe or not to believe. If someone doesn't agree with the UP side of the story that's OK too. I encourage you guys to come to the Rocky Mountain Train Show in Denver next Saturday and ask your own questions, form your own opinion and of course shop for trains. Hopefully I'll see some of you at the show.

Have fun! Model Trains!

Tranz4mr posted:

Actually I post the official UP videos mostly to get the other side of the story

What exactly IS the "other side of the story"? All the "official UP videos" are pretty much all fluff made for the model railroaders and younger railfans. Whenever any directly to-the-point technical questions/comments are made to that site, they are quickly deleted. 

out there so that you can decide for yourself what to believe or not to believe.

Well when it comes to "believe or not to believe", it sure is hard to discount that poor 844 has not operated since July 2013. It is also quite disconcerting to see how the firebox has been cutup, when the complete firebox was bran spanking new, as of 2005 when she was returned to service. 

If someone doesn't agree with the UP side of the story that's OK too. I encourage you guys to come to the Rocky Mountain Train Show in Denver next Saturday and ask your own questions, form your own opinion and of course shop for trains. Hopefully I'll see some of you at the show.

Have fun! Model Trains!

jmiller320 posted:

When you look at some of the questionable repairs they uncovered you can't blame them for checking everything out and fixing it right.

Mr. Miller, I challenge you to back up that statement with some facts and photos.

Anything less is just more Koolaide from the DL.

Is the 844 becoming the new PRR 1361?  All apart!

By looking at that picture of the firebox repairs, I would guess the pool chemicals and the collection of sediment attacked the lower portions of the side sheets hence the needed repairs for the wasting of the metal.

steam fan posted:

By looking at that picture of the firebox repairs, I would guess the pool chemicals and the collection of sediment attacked the lower portions of the side sheets hence the needed repairs for the wasting of the metal.

That plus the lack of proper blowdowns and trying to use No. 2 diesel fuel for a year.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Is the 844 becoming the new PRR 1361?  All apart!

As problematic as things may seem there, I don't think it's as messed up as THAT!! 

Rich or Hotwater, In your professional opinions do you think the welding repairs being done to 844 are cause for concern? Meaning are they unsafe?

I remember seeing the photos posted online.  Maybe even on this forum,  If this is where I saw the they are long gone.  You can't allow anything that goes against your narrative to stay on the forum.

jmiller320 posted:

I remember seeing the photos posted online.  Maybe even on this forum,  If this is where I saw the they are long gone.  You can't allow anything that goes against your narrative to stay on the forum.

This is still here, isn't it?

Now put your money where your mouth is and back up your accusations.

Otherwise it's just more Cheyenne Koolaide.

OGR Webmaster posted:

jmiller320 posted:

I remember seeing the photos posted online.  Maybe even on this forum,  If this is where I saw the they are long gone.  You can't allow anything that goes against your narrative to stay on the forum.

This is still here, isn't it?

MODERATOR EDIT: This is not a thread about forum moderation. It's about the Union Pacific steam videos. Keep it on topic.

Maybe when I get back to my computer and off the phone I can find the subject photo's.  You know they exist.

The only photos I've seen are those of the 844's mudded up boiler caused by the DL's use of swimming pool chemicals and not performing blow downs.

If you have others that can support your allegations, post them.

Union Pacific Steam Shop has a big foot print on You Tube. As of now this thread got 574 views in two days and during the same time period, The You Tube Video got 4016 views and it will grow to 26,000 views. See screenshot below. 

The You Tube viewers are not Kool-aide drinkers. There are about 24 comments and some even ask hardball questions. Union Pacific Railroad is being honest with their railfans. 

Gary - Cheers from The Detroit and Mackinac Railway

Here you go Rich and other doubters.  These photos and the comment below came off a post on the internet.  Here we see those welded on stay bolt caps again. Original from the steam era UP! However we also see an interesting modification. Yes, it was items such as these that spurred the choice of investigation and that made very evident the engine needed to be brought up to modern standards. On the back head there are many "interesting" undocumented modifications to be found. Some are simply illegal, and some are "unethical business practices" or unprofessional practices by today's standard. Which doesn't make them absolutely unsafe, but frowned upon within the industry. It would be considered a "get by" so to speak. We would never want such beautiful locomotives to be frowned upon in ANY way. Thus, it would be wise to correct any misunderstood or interesting modifications while the time is here and they are seen. As it will not only save head ache later, it will ensure safe and proper operations and condition of the engines. Putting them back to how they were drawn on paper to be.

As far as your comment"This is not a thread about forum moderation. It's about the Union Pacific steam videos. Keep it on topic" Every time some one post something you don't agree with you delete it.  I happen to like cherry koolaid, and sometimes I switch to orange.

trainroomgary posted:

Union Pacific Steam Shop has a big foot print on You Tube. As of now this thread got 574 views in two days and during the same time period, The You Tube Video got 4016 views and it will grow to 26,000 views. See screenshot below. 

The You Tube viewers are not Kool-aide drinkers. There are about 24 comments and some even ask hardball questions. Union Pacific Railroad is being honest with their railfans. 

Gary - Cheers from The Detroit and Mackinac Railway

Well I just went to the YouTube page and I didn't see any hardball questions. It was the typical kool-aid stuff. Same goes for the official UP Facebook page. If you say something questioning them it gets deleted. 

Gasp! RUST on a steam engine boiler! According to Ed dickens the 611 restoration is also suspect! Anyone who saw the videos of the test firing saw an engine COVERED in Rust! The former crew may have removed all the rust but reall there is a good chance they didnt bother. They are made to withstand some rusting. http://cfvod.kaltura.com/p/557...width/640/height/360

Spoony81 posted:

Well I just went to the YouTube page and I didn't see any hardball questions. It was the typical kool-aid stuff. Same goes for the official UP Facebook page. If you say something questioning them it gets deleted. 

Hi Spoony81 • Thanks for the tip on the Union Pacific Facebook Page, excellent source of information on the U.P. Steam Shop. Cool photos to check out. Did not know they had a Facebook Page.

Would somebody PLEASE point out on the pictures of the boiler above what exactly is wrong?  Not everybody on this list knows everything about boilers!

Also, I thought the 844 was retubed and past the 15 year inspection before the Sunset Route run>

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Also, I thought the 844 was retubed and past the 15 year inspection before the Sunset Route run>

No. The FRA mandated 15 year boiler inspection on 844 would have come due in 2019, which would have coincided with the 150th anniversary of the gold spike in Utah. The flues/tubes that were all scaled up and removed from 844 about 2 years ago, when all new in 2005.

jmiller320 posted:

Here you go Rich and other doubters.  These photos and the comment below came off a post on the internet.  Here we see those welded on stay bolt caps again. Original from the steam era UP! However we also see an interesting modification. Yes, it was items such as these that spurred the choice of investigation and that made very evident the engine needed to be brought up to modern standards. On the back head there are many "interesting" undocumented modifications to be found. Some are simply illegal, and some are "unethical business practices" or unprofessional practices by today's standard. Which doesn't make them absolutely unsafe, but frowned upon within the industry. It would be considered a "get by" so to speak. We would never want such beautiful locomotives to be frowned upon in ANY way. Thus, it would be wise to correct any misunderstood or interesting modifications while the time is here and they are seen. As it will not only save head ache later, it will ensure safe and proper operations and condition of the engines. Putting them back to how they were drawn on paper to be.

You apparently have no experience as a Boilermaker, nor do you have any experience working and or around large railroad steam locomotive boilers. There is NOTHING "illegal" in those photos! You have also fallen into the vat of lies being distributed out of Chetenne by the current manager. Apparently he didn't have any experience either, considering the statements about those welded on FLEXIBLE staybolt caps, which were commonly used by many, many railroads. Also, those studs welded on in various locations are only to support the sheet metal jacket, thus are NOT "high strength" support studs.

You, and many, many, others have fallen into believing the lies continually spread by the current manager.

Hot Water posted

...... the "official UP videos" are pretty much all fluff made for the model railroaders and younger railfans. .......

Hot Water .... this young, naïve guy ... that you look down your nose at .... is wise enough to know that you ....

       -- B.S. whenever it's needed to further your anti-Dickens narrative

       -- sometimes give incorrect technical information on subjects that you should know quite well

Anyway ..... Kent, that's for posting that. And, good luck with the train show .... it looks like A LOT of fun! 

ROCKY MOUNTAIN TRAIN SHOW

Matt Ryan

jmiller320 posted:

Here you go Rich and other doubters.  These photos and the comment below came off a post on the internet.  Here we see those welded on stay bolt caps again. Original from the steam era UP! However we also see an interesting modification. Yes, it was items such as these that spurred the choice of investigation and that made very evident the engine needed to be brought up to modern standards. On the back head there are many "interesting" undocumented modifications to be found. Some are simply illegal, and some are "unethical business practices" or unprofessional practices by today's standard. Which doesn't make them absolutely unsafe, but frowned upon within the industry. It would be considered a "get by" so to speak. We would never want such beautiful locomotives to be frowned upon in ANY way. Thus, it would be wise to correct any misunderstood or interesting modifications while the time is here and they are seen. As it will not only save head ache later, it will ensure safe and proper operations and condition of the engines. Putting them back to how they were drawn on paper to be.

Just remember Jim that former UP steam shop manager Steve Lee helped WRITE the rules and practices for modern steam loco repair and operation after the Gettysburg incident.  If I were going to follow ANYONE'S advice on the RIGHT way to maintain a steamer, it would be him, not the current manager, who is persona non grata among the steam preservation and operation community, people who actually HAVE a track record of safe and effective operation like Steve Lee, Rich Melvin and Doyle McCormack, who have more steam knowledge in their pinkie fingers than Ed Dickens has in his whole body.

Did anyone notice this comment in the UP video?

“We carefully painted the internal air passages with a special enamel.”

Is painting the internal portions of air brake components a standard practice or is E.D. doing something extra special?

Just read the Gettysburg incident report and the FRA mandates new  guidelines and man,..... They turned this into NASA  where the paperwork must equal or surpass the actual weight of the vehicle itself.

aterry11 posted:

Just read the Gettysburg incident report and the FRA mandates new  guidelines and man,..... They turned this into NASA  where the paperwork must equal or surpass the actual weight of the vehicle itself.

That certainly beats seriously injuring, or killing, cab crew members, as what happened on the Gettysburg.

  From the net.... accurate or not I have no idea.

On the evening of June 16, 1995, a series of lax maintenance and operational errors combined to cause No.1278’s crown sheet to fail, and the blast of escaping steam burned three crewmen (fortunately, all survived). The National Transportation Safety Board investigated, determining that the modern, Canadian design of the firebox with button-head staybolts may have prevented additional injuries (and perhaps deaths) from this incident. Since then the Federal Railroad Administration has developed an all-new set of rules for the maintenance and operation of steam locomotives, and all of us are safer today because of No.1278’s bad experience.

Ok what's a button head stay bolt. Is it shown in one of previous posts?    Anyone here ever have to drop or put out  the fire?