Goodbye DCS Remote announced at York - Bummer

Ray Lombardo posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

MTH may avoid making an investment in the remote, but they are also making an investment in Lionel locomotives for me.  Yes, I have a smart phone, a tablet, and even a couple of older smart phones in boxes.  It's not the availability of the WiFi hardware that's the impediment, at least in my case.  I think the MTH WiFi application interface is decent, but I still by far prefer the hand held remote.  I'll buy stuff that I still have a remote to run.

That is a fair point and your decision to spend as you wish.  Mike is betting that more consumers will appreciate and use the app.  It's a business judgment on his part and I think given where the market is, it is a reasonable one.  If he loses customers due to it, that is his loss but I suspect most of the people on this thread expressing a view tend to skew more towards Legacy/ high end operation anyways, so perhaps that is not a loss as far as he is concerned because perhaps he is already ceding the extreme high end to Lionel.  I have no idea what his thinking is but in the year 2018 there are few businesses that want to be wed to 15 year old hardware.

You're missing an even more basic point.  They have a choice now, remove one of the choices and you remove some of the customers!  It's not like the people that want to use the app are left out.

Unless I read Mike way wrong, he's not ceding anything to Lionel!

I sold my DCS wifi thing

clem k posted:

I sold my DCS wifi thing

   How much are remotes going for these days. 150.00????

Here's how the kids view handheld remote users. Back to the Future II clip.

I also do not want to use my phone. 

MTH should continue to manufacture the handheld remote along with the app. for at least a few more years and see how it goes. 

I like the remote because everything is right in front of you, (the K.I.S.S. principal), as I don't need to look for which buttons to press while controlling the layout.  

I understand why the app was created and wouldn't mind trying it in the future on a tablet, maybe control a simple loop around the Christmas tree, but not the complexity of a multi train layout.

MTH already extended the life of the remote at least once if I remember right.  Not sure they are willing to do it again.

My HO model railroad club setup its NCE DCC system use smart phones to control trains about a year ago.  We have found that most members prefer using their smart phones to run trains instead of the NCE remote.  The NCE DCC remote is similar in shape and size to the MTH DCS remote.  

One huge advantage of the smart phone over the remote is that members don't have to remember to bring the remote to the club.  Nearly all members and most visitors have a smart phone with them at all times.  I think that smart phones will be the preferred method of controlling trains at clubs in the future.  Young members don't bother buying a NCE remote.  

I tested the MTH app on my smart phone at the NMRA convention in Kansas City.  It worked fine.  The MTH representative at the booth told me that the wifi signal was stronger than the remote's signal.  He said that users were less likely to get the dreaded "out of range" and "engine not found" messages when they use wifi.  I don't know if this is true or not.  

I will most likely install the MTH wifi app on my home layout in the near future.  I am hoping that it will work better than the remote.

NH Joe

I guess that explains why I haven't gotten a replacement thumb roller from the MTH Parts booth at YORK.  Been trying to get one from them the past 3 meets and no cigar.  Guess I might be s**t out o luck?

My train inventory is mostly Lionel -- one TMCC loco, two Legacy locos and four LionChief locos in the THOMAS series -- and just one older MTH loco with PS2. I wired my home layout with control hardware for both brands, but I have not yet used the MTH DCS system for the one MTH loco; it's still in its (unopened) box.  I bought it for a special project that fell by the wayside. I intend to list the MTH loco (with NASA decor) and a string of accompanying NASA freight cars for sale on e-Bay soon. Perhaps another hobbyist will want that train. Then I'll be out of the MTH orbit forever and beyond the impact zone of their techno decision-making.

Lionel's Legacy system works reliably for me and my 5-year-old great-grandson. So I'll "grow where I'm planted." 

Mike M.  (ritrainguy)
mottlerm@gmail.com

superwarp1 posted:

clem k posted:

I sold my DCS wifi thing

   How much are remotes going for these days. 150.00????

Who knows? They could be going for more money down the road as they become more scarce.  I don’t imagine MTH will be supporting parts for them either which will be a real bummer when the thumb wheels break.  I always had an extra one in stock for a back up. 

I understand the desire to eliminate a step and the associated costs however I use my phone for calls and to text.  I don't want it to be a camera, I don't want it to be a device to operate model trains.  I prefer the segregation.  That being said, since I don't have or plan to purchase DCS it really doesn't matter.  Just one more reason to stay away from the system.

I'm planning on buying a DCS system after the holidays. I was debating between getting the Wi-Fi system or the remote. I'll be getting the Wi-Fi system now. I have a tablet I can use for the app and it shouldn't be hard at all to figure out how to use it, especially since I haven't used the remote before.

I have to figure that at some point the controls will just be built into the locomotives (ala Lionchief) and controlled via Bluetooth.

New Haven Joe posted:

I tested the MTH app on my smart phone at the NMRA convention in Kansas City.  It worked fine.  The MTH representative at the booth told me that the wifi signal was stronger than the remote's signal.  He said that users were less likely to get the dreaded "out of range" and "engine not found" messages when they use wifi.  I don't know if this is true or not.  

NH Joe

 

I don't get the engine not found because of Remote and TIU conversations, it is because of the TIU and the engine not communicating well with each other, even in tethered mode. If the "out of range" and "engine not found" messages pop up because of bad software, that is another story.

No mobile telephone, still in the dark ages so will have to pull all the electronic gismos & just run on 12v DC  James

yankspride4 posted:

I run trains as a break from daily life. That means putting the phone & tablet down.

I think I'll go back to conventional control at some point. 

A few thoughts:

My twin middle school age sons and I prefer the remotes and own three. Like yankspride4 says: the remote puts a mental separation in between everything else and train time. 

Also, my wifi isn't so great from top floor of my house to my basement. Seems like MTH is possibly introducing yet another possible point of frustration in running DCS/MTH trains. 

Finally, my personal smart phone gets call almost as frequently as my work phone.  And when it does, the screen changes to phone mode. What happens when two trains are about to go through a T crossing at opposite angles and at that moment my phone rings?  Crash, boom, bang!  Well, maybe MTH is smarter than I thought. This "issue" could result in more sales volumes to replace totaled trains. Heehee...

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Ray Lombardo posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

MTH may avoid making an investment in the remote, but they are also making an investment in Lionel locomotives for me.  Yes, I have a smart phone, a tablet, and even a couple of older smart phones in boxes.  It's not the availability of the WiFi hardware that's the impediment, at least in my case.  I think the MTH WiFi application interface is decent, but I still by far prefer the hand held remote.  I'll buy stuff that I still have a remote to run.

That is a fair point and your decision to spend as you wish.  Mike is betting that more consumers will appreciate and use the app.  It's a business judgment on his part and I think given where the market is, it is a reasonable one.  If he loses customers due to it, that is his loss but I suspect most of the people on this thread expressing a view tend to skew more towards Legacy/ high end operation anyways, so perhaps that is not a loss as far as he is concerned because perhaps he is already ceding the extreme high end to Lionel.  I have no idea what his thinking is but in the year 2018 there are few businesses that want to be wed to 15 year old hardware.

You're missing an even more basic point.  They have a choice now, remove one of the choices and you remove some of the customers!  It's not like the people that want to use the app are left out.

Unless I read Mike way wrong, he's not ceding anything to Lionel!

I reached out and received a response from Andy at MTH.  I asked his permission to paste his response.  If and when he gives the OK I will post.  Don't want to violate the boilerplate at the bottom of the email.  Hopefully soon, and we can understand there vision.  I think their purchasing audience is our demographic.  They envision young people and their like for apps and phones.  I think you need to get them to the trains first.  I don't see someone perusing the app store and saying with this app I will get into the train hobby.  In other words, you can't go to the fireplace and say "give me heat and then I will give you logs".  I agree with Gunrunner John.  It's good to have choices.  Not yes or no.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

H1000 posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I forgot to mention.  Upgraded app (25.00) x DCS users (???) to get features we have with remote, TIU, & AIU.  Sounds like income without representation ($$$) to me.

We have a single google account that has already purchased the upgraded $25 app. Anyone who uses that account to download the app doesn't pay for each device and or user of the premium app. Our cost to install the premium app on 6 devices was a total of $25.

$25.00 per user, up to 6 devices.  I am talking about $25.00 x user, not $25.00 x devices.  Still $25.00 x users is real money.  Customer money.  Every user will spend $25.00.  Can't estimate because I don't know how many DCS users are out there.  I would speculate that there are a few users out there who have or had not intention of using the app.  This does not take into account the users that want to stay under the radar (no wireless tech) because they don't trust anything that goes over a radio wave.  Some avoid potential hacking by not going there.  I know it is safe with DCS and the app.  But there is still an educational process to deal with making people feel secure.  They won't be bothered.  They will be like the quiet customers, and just go away and in time people will ask why?  That is usually to late to reverse the tide.

Buy what you need, something that APP allows you to do.

What about those DCS remote users who bought features they don't need because they didn't opt for an AIU.

There is also a standard upgrade for $5 to allow full access to all engine features without accessory or switch control features.

My last new DCS remote cost just as much as a WIU plus the $25 app upgrade. Now I can add as many (disposable) remotes as I want without incurring any extra cost. 

I see what you are saying about the app upgrade looking like a money grab especially when it isn't a an object you can hold or put on the shelf.  It is software and you pay to unlock features within it. Some people get it, other just don't like paying money for something they can't physically touch.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Ray Lombardo posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

MTH may avoid making an investment in the remote, but they are also making an investment in Lionel locomotives for me.  Yes, I have a smart phone, a tablet, and even a couple of older smart phones in boxes.  It's not the availability of the WiFi hardware that's the impediment, at least in my case.  I think the MTH WiFi application interface is decent, but I still by far prefer the hand held remote.  I'll buy stuff that I still have a remote to run.

That is a fair point and your decision to spend as you wish.  Mike is betting that more consumers will appreciate and use the app.  It's a business judgment on his part and I think given where the market is, it is a reasonable one.  If he loses customers due to it, that is his loss but I suspect most of the people on this thread expressing a view tend to skew more towards Legacy/ high end operation anyways, so perhaps that is not a loss as far as he is concerned because perhaps he is already ceding the extreme high end to Lionel.  I have no idea what his thinking is but in the year 2018 there are few businesses that want to be wed to 15 year old hardware.

You're missing an even more basic point.  They have a choice now, remove one of the choices and you remove some of the customers!  It's not like the people that want to use the app are left out.

Unless I read Mike way wrong, he's not ceding anything to Lionel!

John, my underlying assumption is that the remotes cannot continue to be manufactured without further re-engineering, or at least that is what I have read here and heard at the local train store.  If there is no re-engineering necessary, then you are correct and they are simply foregoing customers.  I don't think most firms behave that irrationally.

H1000 posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

H1000 posted:

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I forgot to mention.  Upgraded app (25.00) x DCS users (???) to get features we have with remote, TIU, & AIU.  Sounds like income without representation ($$$) to me.

We have a single google account that has already purchased the upgraded $25 app. Anyone who uses that account to download the app doesn't pay for each device and or user of the premium app. Our cost to install the premium app on 6 devices was a total of $25.

$25.00 per user, up to 6 devices.  I am talking about $25.00 x user, not $25.00 x devices.  Still $25.00 x users is real money.  Customer money.  Every user will spend $25.00.  Can't estimate because I don't know how many DCS users are out there.  I would speculate that there are a few users out there who have or had not intention of using the app.  This does not take into account the users that want to stay under the radar (no wireless tech) because they don't trust anything that goes over a radio wave.  Some avoid potential hacking by not going there.  I know it is safe with DCS and the app.  But there is still an educational process to deal with making people feel secure.  They won't be bothered.  They will be like the quiet customers, and just go away and in time people will ask why?  That is usually to late to reverse the tide.

Buy what you need, something that APP allows you to do.

What about those DCS remote users who bought features they don't need because they didn't opt for an AIU.

There is also a standard upgrade for $5 to allow full access to all engine features without accessory or switch control features.

My last new DCS remote cost just as much as a WIU plus the $25 app upgrade. Now I can add as many (disposable) remotes as I want without incurring any extra cost. 

I see what you are saying about the app upgrade looking like a money grab especially when it isn't a an object you can hold or put on the shelf.  It is software and you pay to unlock features within it. Some people get it, other just don't like paying money for something they can't physically touch.

Both are kinda correct though.

Here is how I got burned and although I am not super upset about it, it still kinds ticked me off.

I am a die hard android user, I have never purchased an iPhone in my life. I bought the WIU after purchasing a TIU with remote. Went home hooked everything up, whipped out my android phone and had some fun. Then, I told myself, self, it would be better for you to use your company iPad since it has a larger screen. OOOPPPSSS!!! I need t pay another $25 to access the features on my iPad! That kinda sticks IMO, I am the same person, using the same WIU to control one layout, why does it sound fair to MTH to charge me $50 to run my trains in my personal situation, I am sure others have both Android and IOS devices in their lives.

Last I checked, MTH had one remote, no matter if you are android, IOS, windows, linux, ms-dos, blackberry, palm pilot; the remote doesn't care how many engines you have, doesn't care if you like Star Wars or Star Trek, it just worked.

I am sorry but a successful business, not only grows with the times, but also caters to all possible customers not just those who decide to purchase something going forward.

Chris Lonero posted:

MTH did send out a questioner a while back asking what we would like to see in a remote then they went full steam with the app and that was the end of that. This isn’t anything new MTH had plans a few York’s back to phase out the remote.  

Questioner?  Wonder who the half dozen were?

PJB posted:

 

A few thoughts:

My twin middle school age sons and I prefer the remotes and own three. Like yankspride4 says: the remote puts a mental separation in between everything else and train time. 

My Nieces & nephews didn't want anything to do with the trains until they found out that they could use their tablet to run them.

Also, my wifi isn't so great from top floor of my house to my basement. Seems like MTH is possibly introducing yet another possible point of frustration in running DCS/MTH trains. 

Your home wifi doesn't have to strong to make the system work, in fact it can be non-existant. The WIU can generate its own WiFi signal which will be plenty strong near your layout for a device to connect to.

Finally, my personal smart phone gets call almost as frequently as my work phone.  And when it does, the screen changes to phone mode. What happens when two trains are about to go through a T crossing at opposite angles and at that moment my phone rings?  Crash, boom, bang!  Well, maybe MTH is smarter than I thought. This "issue" could result in more sales volumes to replace totaled trains. Heehee...

Tablets and old phones without a connection to a phone carrier are cheap, easily replaced, and readily available in all sizes for any preference. I bought two 7" RCA tablets last year from Shopko for $25 a piece.

Daniel J. Gonzalez posted:

I am a die hard android user, I have never purchased an iPhone in my life. I bought the WIU after purchasing a TIU with remote. Went home hooked everything up, whipped out my android phone and had some fun. Then, I told myself, self, it would be better for you to use your company iPad since it has a larger screen. OOOPPPSSS!!! I need t pay another $25 to access the features on my iPad! That kinda sticks IMO, I am the same person, using the same WIU to control one layout, why does it sound fair to MTH to charge me $50 to run my trains in my personal situation, I am sure others have both Android and IOS devices in their lives.

Last I checked, MTH had one remote, no matter if you are android, IOS, windows, linux, ms-dos, blackberry, palm pilot; the remote doesn't care how many engines you have, doesn't care if you like Star Wars or Star Trek, it just worked.

I am sorry but a successful business, not only grows with the times, but also caters to all possible customers not just those who decide to purchase something going forward.

How can MTH fix this? Isn't this more of a Google & Apple can't share the same app store problem?

Trust me, this isn't the only app in the world where this problem occurs.

My LHS shows that a shipment of MTH remotes are due in on 11-20-18 (originally 9-20-18).

Is that a last shipment or not going to happen ?

H1000 posted:

Daniel J. Gonzalez posted:

I am a die hard android user, I have never purchased an iPhone in my life. I bought the WIU after purchasing a TIU with remote. Went home hooked everything up, whipped out my android phone and had some fun. Then, I told myself, self, it would be better for you to use your company iPad since it has a larger screen. OOOPPPSSS!!! I need t pay another $25 to access the features on my iPad! That kinda sticks IMO, I am the same person, using the same WIU to control one layout, why does it sound fair to MTH to charge me $50 to run my trains in my personal situation, I am sure others have both Android and IOS devices in their lives.

Last I checked, MTH had one remote, no matter if you are android, IOS, windows, linux, ms-dos, blackberry, palm pilot; the remote doesn't care how many engines you have, doesn't care if you like Star Wars or Star Trek, it just worked.

I am sorry but a successful business, not only grows with the times, but also caters to all possible customers not just those who decide to purchase something going forward.

How can MTH fix this? Isn't this more of a Google & Apple can't share the same app store problem?

Trust me, this isn't the only app in the world where this problem occurs.

How can MTH fix this? Isn't this more of a Google & Apple can't share the same app store problem?

Easy, once someone pays the $25. the WIU features are unlocked physically in the unit itself, not the phone. Once that takes place any phone that connects to said WIU will have all the features unlocked. Its possible but as you can see, cuts the money flow.

Trust me, this isn't the only app in the world where this problem occurs.

Absolutely, I am sure it is not the first app, but of those apps with issues, do you also purchase $1500 engines and $400 control systems. As you can see the expense just seems to keep adding up. If my ringtones app that cost me $.99 doesn't work on my iPad, I honestly can complain but as you can see we aren't comparing apples to apples.

As to those of you that are buying $25.00 tablets. Please do understand one thing, those tablets are probably running and old version of Android, those older versions are usually no longer supported by Google which means security patches are also no longer being pushed out. You go ahead and place your personal info on Android 6.0 if you want but I personally would not recommend doing so, especially that once you log in to a smartphone using your credentials, google and most modern providers, tend to send all of your personal info to that device for convenience sake.

Just a little food for thought. P.s. this applies for those of you still running Windows 7. Your days of a secure environment are counted.

Last I checked, my "15 year old" remote, which is only 1 year old might I add, doesn't share this same security risk.

Easy, once someone pays the $25. the WIU features are unlocked physically in the unit itself, not the phone. Once that takes place any phone that connects to said WIU will have all the features unlocked. Its possible but as you can see, cuts the money flow.

Easier said than done... People much smarter than you and I most likely thought of this and moved on. I'll differ to GRJ's tag line: Nothing is so easy as the job you imagine someone else doing.

$25 disposable tablet - connect to the internet for 5 minutes to download the app from a gmail account (specifically made for buying and downloading the app only) with the unlock. Disconnect from the internet and connect to the WIU directly which doesn't have internet access. That tablet will only see internet again for brief periods when the app needs to be updated.  I doubt your whole life will be completely hacked in those brief periods of time from a device that is connected to a home internet connection you can trust.

My $25 tablets do not have any info on them other than the one gmail account with the app unlocked. Nothing worth stealing or hacking, not even credit card info. They were bought for one purpose, running my train apps.

I like the remote but IMHO the future is higher tech @ lower cost.  Why do I think that: because most everyone likes lower cost startup and APPs attract future generations.  It takes less hardware to run apps: ie, no remote means lower cost.  Look at the competition.  IMHO they're on the way to bluetooth  No hardware to buy at least for now, just use your phone, tablet, etc to run your engine.

I was a hold out for a while to get the wifi and the app but simply put it works and it works well! The only thing I miss is the feel you get with the remote. I have an Ipad mini that works perfect as a remote and as the eyes get older the functions much easier to see.

The MTH wifi allows you to use a wifi enabled device to talk directly to the MTH wifi unit, and if I read the manual correctly, you can interface a WIU to multiple TIU/AIU units, the WIU is basically the network connection for those devices, so you don't have to buy multiple WIUs. You also can use your home WiFi network with a WIU, where it attaches  to your network and you talk to it via the home network (like using a wireless printer on your home network from your wifi connected device). The advantage of this for those who have wireless internet is that you can access the internet on your phone while using the MTH App, if you use the MTH direct the phone is talking only to the WIU.  I suspect going directly to the WIU is going to work better because it will be right there where you are for most of us. In the case of someone with a mega layout, you likely would be better using your home network and have a wifi booster or boosters in the basement to make sure you have a clean signal, if the MTH WIFI unit is located a distance away, or has interference, your home network might be the better option. 

As far as the expense, you don't need an expensive device to run this, you can buy Android based tablets for pretty cheap that would do fine. As far as downloading the app, if you don't have internet at home, you can always go to someplace that has free wifi like the public library, and download the app *shrug*. Put it this way, once your DCS remote breaks, you have to shell out $$$ even when they are available, and  still will likely pay a lot once they stop making them and they aren't available from MTH. In theory there could be a cottage industry to repair DCS remotes if parts are available (in theory, a scroll wheel could be hacked with a replacement one used in some other electronic gizmo), but I do suspect that DCS remotes like TMCC base units will be available out there for a while. 

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

  Remote will no longer be promoted and will be phased out as inventory is depleted.  The remote will be replaced with our phones and iPad.  Great business model to eliminate the cost of procuring the remote from an outside vendor for MTH.  

But not so great for those who don't own "our" smartphones or iPads.  Yes, Virginia, it's true --  there are people who choose not to have either.

H1000 posted:

Easy, once someone pays the $25. the WIU features are unlocked physically in the unit itself, not the phone. Once that takes place any phone that connects to said WIU will have all the features unlocked. Its possible but as you can see, cuts the money flow.

Easier said than done... People much smarter than you and I most likely thought of this and moved on. I'll differ to GRJ's tag line: Nothing is so easy as the job you imagine someone else doing.

$25 disposable tablet - connect to the internet for 5 minutes to download the app from a gmail account (specifically made for buying and downloading the app only) with the unlock. Disconnect from the internet and connect to the WIU directly which doesn't have internet access. That tablet will only see internet again for brief periods when the app needs to be updated.  I doubt your whole life will be completely hacked in those brief periods of time from a device that is connected to a home internet connection you can trust.

My $25 tablets do not have any info on them other than the one gmail account with the app unlocked. Nothing worth stealing or hacking, not even credit card info. They were bought for one purpose, running my train apps.

Look my friend, you asked me for a solution and I delivered. When I said "Easy" I meant it was easy to give you a response, not that implementing it would be easy. The WIU is nothing more than a WiFi hotspot. It even has an web interface, MTH can include a "License area" which when a purchase is made, fills in a code in the setting that unlocks the features, this isn't rocket science, literally just a license key or file. If it works for Windows, I think licensing can work for MTH.

If you think someone needs more than 5 min. to take your CC# you have been living under a rock my friend. Like I mentioned, your CC number is usually synced with your google account. Your $25 tablet is just the easy way into your account. I am not trying to turn anyone away from the $25 tablet, just showing you how exposing yourself in a digital world, even for 5 min. is enough exposure to possibly cause issues. Where is that security flaw in the TIU's remote?

While we may have seen this coming, I’m not a fan of the app.  I have it installed on both my iphone and iPad but rarely use it.  It works fine but if you don’t touch your phone for a few minutes you come back to a black screen and have to logon.  In another thread there was a discussion about always having to look at the app; with the remote you can feel the throttle whereas if you touch the screen in the wrong place your train is off at 80 SMPH.

Thanks but, I think I’ll pick up an extra remote.

bigkid posted:

The MTH wifi allows you to use a wifi enabled device to talk directly to the MTH wifi unit, and if I read the manual correctly, you can interface a WIU to multiple TIU/AIU units, the WIU is basically the network connection for those devices, so you don't have to buy multiple WIUs. You also can use your home WiFi network with a WIU, where it attaches  to your network and you talk to it via the home network (like using a wireless printer on your home .............................................

 

Pretty sure the bold part is 100% false.

It's been discussed here many, many times how you need a separate WIU for each TIU.  AIUs, I assume are limited only by how many you have hooked to each of the TIUs, per the normal system limitations.

-Dave

shorling posted:

I like the remote but IMHO the future is higher tech @ lower cost.  Why do I think that: because most everyone likes lower cost startup and APPs attract future generations.  It takes less hardware to run apps: ie, no remote means lower cost.  Look at the competition.  IMHO they're on the way to bluetooth  No hardware to buy at least for now, just use your phone, tablet, etc to run your engine.

No lower cost here, the TIU/WIU combo will be similarly priced to the TIU/Remote combo, exempt now you have to add a $25 fee for the premium features and a smart device of some sort. Technically speaking it will be more and before you say it, yes, we all should have phones.

Competition still has a remote and has not said they will be removing it (Legacy)

I have been considering adding DCS to my layout, and if I do so I would prefer the remote for numerous reasons stated above. (tactile buttons, removal of distractions, relaxation, etc.)

The best possible outcome of the discontinuation of the DCS Remote would be the release of the DCS Remote Mk.II

If MTH made a DCS Wi-Fi app for Microsoft Windows, it would be pretty easy for those among us who prefer a tactile controller to program inputs for controlling our trains with a wireless keyboard. (or a myriad of other PC controller hardware) This way MTH still wouldn't have to build the hardware as well as the software.

Remember when businesses put THE CUSTOMER first?

This is a slap in the face, really.  For, in so many words, all that this message conveys is that MTH wants their customers to run their trains the way that MTH wishes.  Free thought, choice, and preference of the customer be ****ed.....b/c the train of progress is leaving the station.  And the MTH conductor doesn't care who is on board or not.

In contrast, Big Orange had the decency and business acumen to create the "....run your trains in Conventional Mode, TMCC, or Legacy" philosophy.  Whatever the CUSTOMER prefers and enjoys.

On a side note, technology can be a great thing....when it works.

On a second side note, when you lose your phone or have it stolen, you now lose everyone's phone number that you have stored, the ability to text, your pictures and videos, credit or debit card information that is stored on your phone, all of the Apps that you can't somehow live without.....and now, your ability to run your trains.

Far from impressive, IMHO.........

Daniel J. Gonzalez posted:

H1000 posted:

Easy, once someone pays the $25. the WIU features are unlocked physically in the unit itself, not the phone. Once that takes place any phone that connects to said WIU will have all the features unlocked. Its possible but as you can see, cuts the money flow.

Easier said than done... People much smarter than you and I most likely thought of this and moved on. I'll differ to GRJ's tag line: Nothing is so easy as the job you imagine someone else doing.

$25 disposable tablet - connect to the internet for 5 minutes to download the app from a gmail account (specifically made for buying and downloading the app only) with the unlock. Disconnect from the internet and connect to the WIU directly which doesn't have internet access. That tablet will only see internet again for brief periods when the app needs to be updated.  I doubt your whole life will be completely hacked in those brief periods of time from a device that is connected to a home internet connection you can trust.

My $25 tablets do not have any info on them other than the one gmail account with the app unlocked. Nothing worth stealing or hacking, not even credit card info. They were bought for one purpose, running my train apps.

Look my friend, you asked me for a solution and I delivered. When I said "Easy" I meant it was easy to give you a response, not that implementing it would be easy. The WIU is nothing more than a WiFi hotspot. It even has an web interface, MTH can include a "License area" which when a purchase is made, fills in a code in the setting that unlocks the features, this isn't rocket science, literally just a license key or file. If it works for Windows, I think licensing can work for MTH.

If you think someone needs more than 5 min. to take your CC# you have been living under a rock my friend. Like I mentioned, your CC number is usually synced with your google account. Your $25 tablet is just the easy way into your account. I am not trying to turn anyone away from the $25 tablet, just showing you how exposing yourself in a digital world, even for 5 min. is enough exposure to possibly cause issues. Where is that security flaw in the TIU's remote?

You trusted google with your Credit Card Number!!! Yesh...

I went to Walmart an bought a prepaid Google app card, and applied to the account long before I even bought my cheapo tablets. Again what are they going to steal? A depleted google app balance of $0.01? Maybe they send spam to account I don't use... gmail accounts are disposable, make one (or hundreds) for disposable purposes and keep one secure for your real life.

I don't think MTH wanted to invent their own licensing scheme when Google & Apple both have ways of implementing the very feature they wanted. This is MTH, not Micro$oft and they don't have the technical (or most likely the financial) resources to implement a licensing feature in this fashion. Look at how long and how much MS has spent doing so and it still doesn't work perfectly.

MTH gets to move on sometime right?  I'm not saying we have to like it but such is life. 

I see Mario's has new DCS remotes for $150 delivered ($165, -$15 coupon).  If you want to remain in absolute stasis with your control system in perpetuity, get a new DCS remote(s) now and stash it.  Should be some used ones floating around if you want them cheaper.

I keep hearing about running this on your tablet.  However, I've yet to see anyone that can actually do that one-handed, a mode I use all the time with the remote. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I keep hearing about running this on your tablet.  However, I've yet to see anyone that can actually do that one-handed, a mode I use all the time with the remote. 

When I use the tablet, it takes two hands.  A lot of actions seem quicker to me using the remote.   Also, did I miss it: I've haven't seen anything yet that I would consider official from MTH on this subject ?

H1000 posted:

Daniel J. Gonzalez posted:

H1000 posted:

Easy, once someone pays the $25. the WIU features are unlocked physically in the unit itself, not the phone. Once that takes place any phone that connects to said WIU will have all the features unlocked. Its possible but as you can see, cuts the money flow.

Easier said than done... People much smarter than you and I most likely thought of this and moved on. I'll differ to GRJ's tag line: Nothing is so easy as the job you imagine someone else doing.

$25 disposable tablet - connect to the internet for 5 minutes to download the app from a gmail account (specifically made for buying and downloading the app only) with the unlock. Disconnect from the internet and connect to the WIU directly which doesn't have internet access. That tablet will only see internet again for brief periods when the app needs to be updated.  I doubt your whole life will be completely hacked in those brief periods of time from a device that is connected to a home internet connection you can trust.

My $25 tablets do not have any info on them other than the one gmail account with the app unlocked. Nothing worth stealing or hacking, not even credit card info. They were bought for one purpose, running my train apps.

Look my friend, you asked me for a solution and I delivered. When I said "Easy" I meant it was easy to give you a response, not that implementing it would be easy. The WIU is nothing more than a WiFi hotspot. It even has an web interface, MTH can include a "License area" which when a purchase is made, fills in a code in the setting that unlocks the features, this isn't rocket science, literally just a license key or file. If it works for Windows, I think licensing can work for MTH.

If you think someone needs more than 5 min. to take your CC# you have been living under a rock my friend. Like I mentioned, your CC number is usually synced with your google account. Your $25 tablet is just the easy way into your account. I am not trying to turn anyone away from the $25 tablet, just showing you how exposing yourself in a digital world, even for 5 min. is enough exposure to possibly cause issues. Where is that security flaw in the TIU's remote?

You trusted google with your Credit Card Number!!! Yesh...

I went to Walmart an bought a prepaid Google app card, and applied to the account long before I even bought my cheapo tablets. Again what are they going to steal? A depleted google app balance of $0.01? Maybe they send spam to account I don't use... gmail accounts are disposable, make one (or hundreds) for disposable purposes and keep one secure for your real life.

I don't think MTH wanted to invent their own licensing scheme when Google & Apple both have ways of implementing the very feature they wanted. This is MTH, not Micro$oft and they don't have the technical (or most likely the financial) resources to implement a licensing feature in this fashion. Look at how long and how much MS has spent doing so and it still doesn't work perfectly.

I just choose to go the secure route and keep all of y stuff updated, to date my trust for Google has never failed me because I heed their security warnings. If the disconnected and outdated route works for you then hey, that is why they say there is an arse for every seat lmao!

I sell low voltage security equipment and some CCTV camera systems require licensing, I could have made a name drop like EXACQ or Digital Watchdog, they are no where near as large as Microsoft, and they manage to get it done, just not as cool of a name drop as Microsoft is but to the same point it doesn't mean you need to have this large staff managing this, PC's do that for us.

The scheme Google and Apple have and the route MTH currently has screw customers like myself that have multiple platforms. You seem to be my polar opposite on this subject but you have to admit at some point in time that MTH is more concerned about making money then satisfying their customers needs. If that is their philosophy, there is nothing wrong with it, put some pants on like a big boy and flat out say it, we don't care what our customers think we do what we need to survive. Then the customers can choose the paths they want to take, that is the great part about capitalism.