MTH Crossing Gate - Help Needed

Red is power, black is ground. Not sure about the relay, but blue is common, white and yellow are NO and NC. You should be able to hook the two isolated rail wires together. Here is a diagram.

Thanx John - I did have the red and black connected to power and ground but they didn't work.  I'm pretty sure the wiring I have is correct - I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the gates themselves.  I'm also thinking that maybe the track isn't insulated correctly.  I have isolated block set up and power going to each block.  I do have a common (ground) going to each block and I have "crossed grounded" both rails.  Anyway, I do appreciate your feedback and help!!  Thanx again -

Paul

It's easy to check your isolated rails. Just check for continuity between the two outside rails in the isolated section with an ohm meter.

Well to help on this, since there is another topic going I just replied to, which is about the gates not raising, well with what your mentioning here, look on the forum and contact STAN2004, he helped me on diagrams with knowing how to use relays and insulated rail to make a crossing gate work. If you look at this topic - you'll find STAN's reply being the 2nd one down from the top - https://ogrforum.com/...04#77311805194143104    and also to help, here's another topic he replied to - https://ogrforum.com/...es-and-signal?page=1      And to also help, here's a diagram he sent me early last year and I still had it saved.

There are a lot of times I wish I lived next door to Stan and Gunrunnerjohn.

John/Tom - OK - just checked my wiring again and it seems to be wired correctly (as per your diagram).  My guess is that it is the insulated track section that is the problem.  I have feeder wires going to the track with a hot to the center rail and a common (ground) going to the outer rail THEN I have a wire connected to both outer rails (to ground both rails).  I'm going to try insulating both outer rails tomorrow and see if that works - (don't have an ohm meter). 

Thanx again - 

Paul

The wire from the insulated rail goes to the relay. The insulated rail should have no connection to the other outside rail.

John H posted:

The wire from the insulated rail goes to the relay. The insulated rail should have no connection to the other outside rail.

Thanx, John - my insulated rail has no connections to the other outside rail - going to spend the day in the basement working on this - thanx again!

Paul

OK - this morning I rechecked the insulated track - no problems there.  I disconnected wires going from gates to the relay and power.  I tested them using MikeCT's illustration by touching the hot and ground to the rails and then touching white to blue wire and yellow to blue wire - gates worked with no problem.  I am now thinking it may be a bad relay - although it was working fine on my old layout.  Oh well, to my LHS to buy a new one - 

Paul

Ok - before I travel 40 miles to buy a new relay is there a way for me to test the relay?

Paul

Lionel also has a good video on how to hook up crossing lights using a relay (their 151E, I believe) which you may want to watch to confirm you have everything hooked up correctly.

You should hear the relay "click" when you activate it (roll a car or whatever across the insulated-rail trigger section).  Then "click" again when you de-activate it.  Can be faint so you might need to put you ear right up to it and turn down the train volume if those are going.  All this seeing as you don't have a meter that is.

For the record, what exactly is the part number of your relay?  I think I know what it is based on your diagram but might as well let us know.  I was going to suggest swapping the white and yellow connections to the relay (for the purposes of testing the relay) but this would typically require soldering which can be a bother.

How are the relay and gates powered? Just run a car over the insulated track. You should be able to hear the relay click, for starters. No click, use something with a light and hook it up the same as the relay coil and try the car again. 

I know the track is properly insulated and I know all connections are correct.  When train moves over insulated track there is no sound from relay and no action on gates.  The drawing in my first post is how the relay is wired - I have the red and black wires coming from the gate wired to my terminal block (AC power).  Pretty sure it's the relay!

Thanx for all your help

Paul

I'm using NTE relay #R14-11A10-12 (DPDT  10A-12VAC) - this is the same relay I used to connect the gates on my "old layout".

Paul

For a last resort check, run a power and ground wire from the transformer direct to the relay coil. That's the second pair of terminals from the bottom of your diagram.

OK John - before I do that I have a question or three:  1) should I leave the power & ground coming from the gate connected to the bus?  2)  should I leave the insulated track ground wire connected to the relay?  3) should I leave the power wire connected to the bus & relay?

Paul

Paul, I would just undo the power and insulated ground to the relay. If no action with the separate hookup, the relay isn’ Working. 

Harleylito posted:

before I travel 40 miles to buy a new relay...

40 miles of winter driving.  

Many mail-order sources of course but after including shipping costs, if you "do" eBay, item number: 232611175804, US seller:

 

 

 

 

stan2004 posted:

Harleylito posted:

before I travel 40 miles to buy a new relay...

40 miles of winter driving.  

Many mail-order sources of course but after including shipping costs, if you "do" eBay, item number: 232611175804, US seller:

 

 

 

 

Thanx, Stan - I appreciate you taking the time to help me - if I need one I'll order from the bay

Paul

Your accessory voltage is 12 volts, be sure to check.  You also need a connection from accessory common to track common to make the relay work,  if you are using a separate 12vac accessory transformer.  Multiple voltage outputs on larger transformer usually have a common connection already done internally.  

John H posted:

Paul, I would just undo the power and insulated ground to the relay. If no action with the separate hookup, the relay isn’ Working. 

OK - the relay clicks when I apply separate hookup - so the relay works!

Mike is right. Just hook the commons of the two transformers together. Be sure they are in phase before you do that. 

Mike - I have the accessory common (B for black) running directly to the common bus bar terminal (see diagram) -  Is this the accessory common wire you are referring to that needs to be connected to the track common?  Or are you saying to connect an additional wire (from your wording that's what it sounds like) from the track common (outside rail) to a common terminal on the bus bar??  

Paul

I'm getting the "Image Not Found" in your last posting. 

You should be able to click on above image to enlarge.  There may be some confusion on using the terms common, ground, etc..  Perhaps this diagram based on your original photo will help.  I believe you've identified and made the connections shown as (1) and (2).  What the guys are now talking about is connection (3).  The (-) of your Accessory terminal block must be connected to the common or outer-rail of the track.  This connection is typically made by running a wire between the Accessory transformer and the Train track transformer (common to common, ground to ground, or whatever you choose to call what is connected to the outer rail).

Paul, your diagram is not showing up. You can connect the two commons anywhere it is convenient-the outside rail common to the buss bar common of accessories.

Thanks, Stan. As usual I'm typing while you're posting.

Stan, John & Mike - Don't know why my diagram isn't showing up - it does on my computer.  Based on Stan's diagram I now understand (I hope) what needs to be done.  Need to connect the common on the train transformer to the common on the accessory transformer (#3).  They are phased.  

I thank you Stan for the diagram as I am a visual learner and it helped greatly.  John's patience with me is to be admired!!!

Paul

I guess I can put the relay I had for you back on the shelf. We're going to stay with this until those blasted gates go down when a train goes by! I need to figure out how Stan does those eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles
And arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each
One was, to be used as evidence against us.

SUCCESS!!  Found out that I didn't have my transformers phased after all (must of had another senior moment). Once phased, not only did the gates operate but a signal bridge that I couldn't get to work for the last month is now operational !!!  Stan, John & Mike - thanx for putting up with this PITA!  The diagram Stan posted made it all clear to this visual learner.  Thanx again guys for taking the time to help relieve my frustration !  

Paul

We like   SUCCESS!!